v1.72 equipment.plist available_to_all

[Svengali]

SYSTEM: WIN

After taking a look in older versions of the Hyperradio I've seen that it's set to false in nearly every version and it is shown on the Equipment Screen properly. So I think this key does nothing.

[Commander McLane]

Hm. If the key isn't there, equipment will not show up on the F3-screen. So I don't think we can say it does nothing.

[Eric Walch]

SYSTEM: WIN

After taking a look in older versions of the Hyperradio I've seen that it's set to false in nearly every version and it is shown on the Equipment Screen properly. So I think this key does nothing.

I looked into the code:

Code: Select all

		// check special availability
		if ([eq_extra_info_dict objectForKey:@"available_to_all"])
			[options addObject: eq_key];

It is just checking for the existance of the key, like McLane writes. The value does not matter. But I agree that this is a bit confusing. (read wrong)
But correcting this could mean that some existing equipment that does work now, could stop working in future. (Added this info to the wiki)

[Commander McLane]

But correcting this could mean that some existing equipment that does work now, could stop working in future.

No, why should it? For available_to_all = YES nothing would change. Only for available_to_all = NO, which is now treated as if it was available_to_all = YES.

So the only case in which some equipment that does work now would be affected, is where the intention was to let it not work. (Although I personally know of no case where available_to_all is set to NO.) Makes no sense for equipment that shall be available regardless of the player's ship.

So, please fix it. The worst thing that can happen is that the intentions of a scripter are actually fulfilled.

[Svengali]

But correcting this could mean that some existing equipment that does work now, could stop working in future.

No, why should it? For available_to_all = YES nothing would change. Only for available_to_all = NO, which is now treated as if it was available_to_all = YES.
So, please fix it. The worst thing that can happen is that the intentions of a scripter are actually fulfilled.

Yes, I think that it should be changed. I've set it to false when testing it (in v1.70) and simply forgot to reset it (bah!) and never took a look in it again. Fixed for the next version.

Thanks for clearing this :-)

[Eric Walch]

So, please fix it. The worst thing that can happen is that the intentions of a scripter are actually fulfilled.

I looked through old oolite versions. 1.55 didn't know that key and with 1.65 it had all set to true.

Than I did look through some old oxp's. Assassains will stop giving you the graviton missile when this gets changed. Trident Down 1.0 will also not working than. And there are probably more.
I don't know if equipment is awarded by script in Trident down, but I know from Assassains that you do have to buy the graviton missile yourself. It was certainly not mend to be NO by the scripters. But they just didn't noticed the mistake because it worked as intended.

[Svengali]

Than I did look through some old oxp's. Assassains will stop giving you the graviton missile when this gets changed. Trident Down 1.0 will also not working than. And there are probably more.
I don't know if equipment is awarded by script in Trident down, but I know from Assassains that you do have to buy the graviton missile yourself. It was certainly not mend to be NO by the scripters. But they just didn't noticed the mistake because it worked as intended.

This shouldn't be a big problem, I think, because both scripters (LB and Ramirez) are still active here and it would sort out another inconsistent thing. It's already not so easy for new users (scripters) to orientate with all these new toys :-)

Anyway - I'll give them a pm and maybe they can drop a short note here.

[LittleBear]

Sorry being really slow. If I just remove the key completely will that be ok?

[Eric Walch]

Sorry being really slow. If I just remove the key completely will that be ok?

Quite fast actually. But set it to true for a next release. You currently make it available very selectively by give it a very high initial tech-level. Your NO currently has the same effect as YES.

[Ramirez]

Hi all

Trident Down does indeed have a couple of available to alls set to false, but really they're not necessary as I've set the tech level to 99 anyway. If I set the key to true they'll still be hidden from the equipment screen.

I think these may have been inherited from Missiles and Bombs which also has at least one instance of available to all = false, so I better fix that as well.

[Lestradae]

Hi Ramirez,

sorry @thread hijack

But will there be a 1.72-compatible version of Trident Down? I would like to continue the story, but on my and other people`s windows systems this oxp creates a crash at start-up ...

And, you seemed to change the name of a mission script, which made the mission disappear from my screen before. Just saying, I think Eric already told me which script it was and how to repair the issue in my game.

Keep up the good work

L

[Svengali]

Thanks LB and Ramirez.

First time that scripters are faster (prepared) for possible changes of the app :-)

[Ramirez]

Sorry to disappoint Svengali but this has prompted a little rant.

b.t.w I haven't installed 1.72 yet - I put XP onto my Mac a while ago and I've been seduced by PC games. However if there is a problem with Trident Down and someone can tell me what is, I'll fix it. However I don't know what if anything has rendered the OXP incompatible.

To be honest one of the reasons I'm not quite as active on the boards these days is because doing Oolite work has become more of a hardcore programming exercise than a fun way to experiment with simple yet effective gameplay ideas. I admit I've never got to grips with javascript, so I can't really follow a lot of the current discussion, and not knowing the inner-workings of the code all I can do is use trial and error to see what works best. I know progress is good but it gets a bit frustating when a perfectly good solution to a problem is rendered ineffective in each release because a particular function gets deprecated. I've just had a skim through the release notes for 1.72 and while I don't see any other obvious incompatibility with any of my OXPs, it's anyone's guess whether or not a function I may have made use of still works or not.

Maybe I'm being slow here - certainly others have produced far more complex OXPs than me - but isn't anyone else finding it very difficult to keep up with developments? Also I'm mindful of how long it took me to test Trident Down the first time around...

That said, I'm glad people are enjoying my offerings and I'll do what I can to fix them. I don't mean to sound ungrateful!

[Svengali]

Hello Ramirez,

absolutely no problem and a lot of users (me too) are still enjoying your well working oxps. And as you've said complexity is not the measurement for nicely playable addons (even though Trident Down is one of the biiiigggg scripts :-)). Nice.

We have discussed one 'possible' change for one key in Oolite's equipment.plist (available_to_all) to make it more clear for new users/scripters. We even don't know if this change will be done at all and if when this will happen. Currently Oolite uses this key regardless of its value (means it doesn't matter if you set it to true or false - Oolite checks only for existance). This also means that your oxps are still working.

The problem is that this will confuse a little bit (new scripters will copy from other oxps). All other keys have a corresponding value that is processed and controls the behaviour. So the idea is to make it (a little bit) easier to understand - and therefor to give scripters maybe a bit of fun back :-)

I've stumbled over it with my own oxp and thought it would be good to let other know this too. Whatever happens - please continue your work for Oolite. We need you and your nice (well thought) oxps.

[JensAyton]

We have discussed one 'possible' change for one key in Oolite's equipment.plist (available_to_all) to make it more clear for new users/scripters. We even don't know if this change will be done at all and if when this will happen. Currently Oolite uses this key regardless of its value (means it doesn't matter if you set it to true or false - Oolite checks only for existance).

This has been the case for a wide variety of boolean keys. I consider this a bug, and several instances have been fixed. In the case of available_to_all, the new equipment info objects handle this properly, but aren’t used when setting up the equipment screen. This will probably change in 1.73.