The Gateway Device - Oolite forever

[another_commander]

The "How does the seed work" thread in the Expansion Pack forum has made me think about making an idea I had public. I was planning to keep it a secret and only try to implement it at the time of the MNSR, whenever that might be, but as I cannot dedicate too much time on coding anymore, I think I'll just document it here, if someone in the future would like to try to make it happen.

The idea I had combines a new piece of equipment with giving Oolite the potential to expand itself by increasing its content as years go by, even long after development on it has finished. So, here goes with the blueprints:

The equipment is called The Gateway Device. It can be obtained only at tech level 15 worlds. It costs a fortune and then some. What does it do then?

You will not be able to see what it does until you arrive at G8 and one year since the release of the version containing this feature (lets call it v2.0 for example's sake for now) has passed. One year (realtime) after the release of v2.0, G9 will be unlocked. Meaning, an intergalactic jump from G8 will not take you back to G1, but will throw you into G9. If you don't have TGD and do an intergalactic jump, you will return normally to G1, as usual. Now, two years after the release of v2.0, galaxy 10 will be unlocked. Meaning, any galactic jump from G9 will get you to a completely new galaxy, if you have TGD installed at the time of the jump. And so on and so forth. There is no real limit, although I was thinking that something like 10-15 new galaxies could be a reasonable quantity to have, essentially giving the game 10-15 years of self expansion.

All this will be achievable just by buying the thing and having it installed. If you activate the device - and a new key will have to be defined for this - then TGD will catapult you back to G1, regardless of where you happen to be at the time and get itself removed from the equipment list. A new one will have to be obtained to reach the "outer galaxies" again. This is to avoid having to travel through 16-17 galaxies just to return to the first one, if that this is what you wanted to do.

If you think it sounds complex, you are right. I had only a small play with the idea when I was trying to get the user controlled intergalactic jump behaviours to work and it requires plenty of coding and even more plenty of testing (plus fiddling with the computer clock to test correct additions of galaxies etc.), but I think it can be done. It will allow players to keep discovering new things and adventures years after the final release of Oolite.

As a teaser, I will let you have a glimpse at galaxy 9. More could be coming but don't take this as promise or commitment. Just take it for what it is: an idea for the future.

[JohnnyBoy]

Your ideas have made me curious, AC.

Are the galaxies categorised in any way? For example, suppose that I was going to write a mission OXP. Is there any indication to tell me which galaxy I "should" write it for? I mean, what sets each of the galaxies apart?

[another_commander]

Your ideas have made me curious, AC.

Are the galaxies categorised in any way? For example, suppose that I was going to write a mission OXP. Is there any indication to tell me which galaxy I "should" write it for? I mean, what sets each of the galaxies apart?

Nothing sets the galaxies apart. The only thing that identifies them is their six byte seed. The galaxy in the previous screenshot was generated by taking the G1 seed and increasing all six numbers by 1. This is why there is no practical limit to the galaxies that can be generated.

[Cmdr James]

To be sensible, the later galaxies are reached later in the game, so you should expect harder missions in higher galaxies.

This isnt a rule or categorisation, but its probably better to put super hard missions with fleets of cruisers in later galaxies, and milk runs in the first.

[JohnnyBoy]

Thanks for the answer, AC. I suppose what I was really asking was "what stops every galaxy from feeling like 'groundhog day' when compared to the last one?", but Cmdr James gave a good response to that, showing that a feeling of progress could be incorporated into the sequence of galaxies.

I'm now wondering if a 'super-OXP' could be created to give a 'flavour' to an entire galaxy, in the same way that 'Commies.oxp' gives a distinctive flavour to Communist systems...

[Thargoid]

The idea is a nice one, although there are a few comments to be made:

• I'm not sure if 1 galaxy per year is the right figure, but the general concept is a good one.
• As a parallel tweak, it may be better to spread the missions out a bit in the current 8 galaxies. Some galaxies (e.g. 4 & 7) seem to be mission-heavy, whereas others (3, 5, 8 for example) seem to have almost nothing in them mission-wise except the built-in ones and those that cover all (or almost all) galaxies.
• Another useful piece of equipment could be a galactic hyperdrive variant that takes you back a galaxy (e.g. from 2 to 1 or 4 to 3). If that existed, and the "wrap-around" from 8 (or whatever) to 1 was removed too (presumably via a hard-code change), then that would also remove the potential problem of how/when to go back to G1.
• For a little spice, a small change (say 1% or 5%) could be introduced to any GH jump that it doesn't take you to the next (or previous for the above variant) galaxy, but to a random one (inc maybe those above G8).

Just some random alien thoughts for a sultry sweaty Saturday...
[/color]

[Lestradae]

I think this is a very good and entertaining idea for advanced play!

But, why limit the further galaxies to be reached by the "Gateway Device" to a certain number? Why not enable massive exploring ventures, super-difficult missions for which you have to travel to galaxy 132 for the very first time?

I`m all for it

L

[Cmdr James]

One reason is that someone has to check the galaxies, to see if they are usable.

Unless you can analyse the generation methodology, and prove that there will always be a route to a system with a tech level high enough to get a gh, you might get trapped. I assume that this is pretty much impossible, and that you would have to inspect each galaxy by hand to ensure it "works".

Doesnt mean it cant be done, but I do think we should be careful about having huge autogenerated areas of the game (outside of the bits that already are) just because we dont know if they will be any good.

I would like a programmable galactic hyperdrive, where instead of taking you up one, you chose the target galaxy (maybe make it available only in G8, so you have to play through once normally first).

Maybe a complete parallel set of 8 galaxies in Thargoid space and an experimental military sideways hyperspace (from Galcop1 to Tharg1, or G2 to T2 and so on) could be fun? but a huge amount of work to make it work well

[Frame]

One reason is that someone has to check the galaxies, to see if they are usable.

Unless you can analyse the generation methodology, and prove that there will always be a route to a system with a tech level high enough to get a gh, you might get trapped. I assume that this is pretty much impossible, and that you would have to inspect each galaxy by hand to ensure it "works".

Doesnt mean it cant be done, but I do think we should be careful about having huge autogenerated areas of the game (outside of the bits that already are) just because we dont know if they will be any good.

I would like a programmable galactic hyperdrive, where instead of taking you up one, you chose the target galaxy (maybe make it available only in G8, so you have to play through once normally first).

Maybe a complete parallel set of 8 galaxies in Thargoid space and an experimental military sideways hyperspace (from Galcop1 to Tharg1, or G2 to T2 and so on) could be fun? but a huge amount of work to make it work well

I think writing a small program that checks this would be fairly easy, however a bit time consuming.

outline of the program would be to

Store all planets with a techlevel high enough to get a GH
for each planet trace route to one of these systems

oolite allready can do this with the advanced navigation device, that marks the route you have to use in order to get to a certain system..

in case of a planet not reaching a GH techlevel system...
note this in a logfile...

we just need the dump the system info into a file, i think this is allready possible afaik...

and read that file into above mentioned program...

[Commander Mysenses]

But, why limit the further galaxies to be reached by the "Gateway Device" to a certain number? Why not enable massive exploring ventures,

It's always about size with you, isn't it? (napoleon syndrome?? )
Don't believe everything they say in your spam email!

[Lestradae]

Don't believe everything they say in your spam email!

Nooooo! Do you tell me that there will be no lengthening of my lower appendage by about ten centimetres in an heretofore unknown eastern country in a week?

Damn. Another dream shattered.

[Killer Wolf]

hmmm. it's a pretty original idea, but i'm kinda of the opinion that it's a bit unenecessary. personally speaking, i've always thought even one of the galazies was too big. or maybe JUST big enough. i'd prefer one galaxy w/ a much more developed "universe" (ak!) in it, ie a more structured society/layout : perhaps more moons for some planets, more stations around some etc, and a more realistic layout as in core planets are safe, anarchies are outlying, and a pricing system to match risk/reward, et etc.

to me, the trading side of Oolite is a necessary part, but boring. it's too samey, and if i've "explored" more than about fifteen planets in a galaxy, i'd be surprised - i simply find a good tech/agric route and trade between then for quick profits. i find nothing to tempt me to go wandering. I used to like going to see stuff i'd never seen - coming across a dodec for the first time was great, and ditto the military stations etc.

for longevity in gameplay, i'd personally like to see a far more advanced bulletin board system, that would offer trade/transprt/escort/assassination jobs etc. based on random seeds, this would in effect make things infinitely changeable and a bit more interesting for all parties : killers could look for new targets, traders could look for lucrative ner routes/jobs etc.
what could expand things further would be a bit planning in setting up factions in this more detailed "universe" (which could be a site contest perhaps?) ~ say, eg, we set up 8 families. if you do a load of trade runs for the Black Lobsters (we could store a count in the pilot profile maybe) they'll eventually trust you and start offering better prices, which wouldn't degrade as i've heard the existing system does. if you assassinate a few members of the felines, it'll increase the amount of times you'll get felines targetting you, and perhaps a price on your head tht will tempt others.
etc
etc

maybe this yearly thing could be the introduction of a new faction/family? all of a sudden you start getting jobs from a new group who offer good jobs/assassinations of another faction - do you join them or try and wipe them out?

[JensAyton]

Don't believe everything they say in your spam email! :lol:

Nooooo! Do you tell me that there will be no lengthening of my lower appendage by about ten centimetres in an heretofore unknown eastern country in a week?

What’s your foot doing in a hitherto unknown Eastern country?

[JohnnyBoy]

@Killer Wolf - I like your ideas very much. Moving from galaxy to galaxy to effectively see the same stuff is a throwback to Braben and Bell's need to recycle as much of the game as possible to create a "big" play area in just 22KB of usable RAM, IMHO.

As others have said, missions are what gives the game purpose and direction, rather than just doing the same thing in a different galaxy.

[Commander Mysenses]

Don't believe everything they say in your spam email!

Nooooo! Do you tell me that there will be no lengthening of my lower appendage by about ten centimetres in an heretofore unknown eastern country in a week?

What’s your foot doing in a hitherto unknown Eastern country?

Perhaps he's got a Keyo-Toe... or a hardened Seoul... or fallen Acehs...

Whaddya mean?, "STOP NOW!"