Introducing the Kintari - ideas on stats

Davidtq · Post by **Davidtq** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:22 pm

OK came up with a name for my range of ships, and a backstory to go with them.

Apologies these are not final textures, just basic ones to be working with, those horrible red dots which I was originally hoping to turn into weapons will be converted to grilles for some form of dual ram scoop, got to work out those shader things yet as well...

Having not played any ship apart from the cobra mk3 for any length of time Ive got no idea how far out these stats might be Ive based them around the fiction Ive created and tried to balance speed with lack of energy, the scout ship in particular is small.

The ships are the product of a feline race from the kintar system (a non federation world). The Kintari use standard equipment fittings but have their own shipyards and their own aesthetic values. Due to its non federation status their ships arent that common a sight and dont come up for sale often, those that do are likely to be older "well used" models.

Heres the ships, early player textures - npc's will have more striking paint schemes- the player ones can be easily customised by anyone looking to paint their own vehicle

Kintari ships suit their feline heritage they are fast agile and deadly on the offensive, and lightly armoured suiting a heavy alpha strike and relying on reflex's to evade damage. They can not take a prolonged beating.

Being felines - not known for their mercantile nature the kintari trade ships are not the best suited to the honest trader, most kintari "trader" class ships deal exclusively in "salvaged cargo" and rely on their escort of "salvage operatives" for protection. The kintari are used to being the hunters rather than the prey!

When a pounce goes awry any good kintari knows that glorifying fighting to the death is for fools, Kintari pilots enjot a good escape story in the bar as much as a good raid story. Kintari ships are quipped to get out of trouble as fast as they get into it! A kintari Pilot fights to the death only when escape is not an option and then with the wild ferocity of a tom cat at bath time

.

ALL kintari ships will be fitted with millitary lasers, witchlight injectors and escape pods as standard equipment. (once I figure out how to do that...)

First we have the "scout" class ship :-

recharge 2
cargo 1t
energy 100
pitch 1
roll 2
speed 500
missiles 2
thrust 40

Then we have a "heavy fighter"

recharge 4
cargo 5t
energy 150
pitch 1
roll 2
speed 450
missiles 4
thrust 40

Then we have a "medium trader"

recharge 4
cargo 50t
energy 175
pitch 1
roll 2
speed 450
missiles 1
thrust 40

TGHC · Post by **TGHC** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:22 pm

Fine looking ships, I'm assuming the freighters will dock ok they do look a bit wide.

The cargo capacity of the heavy freighter says 5t and the medium 50t must be a typo.

well done matey.

Post by **Disembodied** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:24 pm

I like the styling! Regarding the stats, though, you could have a look at Lestradae's calculations for deriving ship prices in Realistic Shipyards -- could be a good way of telling if you might have over- or under-statted your ships.

Lestradae wrote:
How-To calculate the Revised Ship Prices
----------------------------------------

The Basic Reference Ship is the

Cobra MkIII:
Extended Cargo Capacity: 35 tons
Speed: 0.35 LS
Energy Banks: 4
Missile Slots: 4
Possible Equipment: All
Manoeuvrability (Pitch/Roll): 1.5
Gun Mounts: All 4
Energy recharge rate: 4
Price without Equipment: 150.000 Cr

Cobra MkIII is taken as standard with a Standard Price of 150.000 Cr, and then

Extended Cargo Capacity: Price is raised/lowered 20%/10% per 20 additional/smaller Cargo Bay
Speed: Price is doubled (each time)/lowered 20% per 0.1 LS jump up/down
Energy Banks: Price is raised/lowered 20%/10% per additional/fewer Energy Bank
Missile Slots: Price is raised/lowered 20%/10% per additional/fewer Missile Slots
Possible Equipment: Price is taken down 10% per essential equipment piece not available
Manoeuvrability (Pitch/Roll): Price is raised/lowered 20% per 0.5 additional/lower Pitch/Roll
Gun Mounts: Price is lowered 10% per unavailable, 5% per reduced capacity Gun Mount
Energy recharge rate: Price is raised/lowered 20%/10% per 1 additional/lower Energy recharge rate

Any Price without Equipment is the result of 150.000 Cr multiplied by all multipliers!

If they're coming out with values well in excess of other, similar-sized ships, you might want to re-juggle the numbers. Speeds of 0.5 (or 0.45, for quite a hefty 50-ton-bay trader) do seem a bit high to me -- and using Lestradae's calculations these speeds will have a startling effect on the final prices! Not that you're obliged to stick with these at all, of course. It's probably best if you try a few fights between yourself in a reasonably well equipped Cobra III (shield boosters, ECM, military laser -- the regular kind of bells and whistles you could have with, say, 500 kills under your belt) and two scouts. See how you get on.

If you feel you want to downgrade, you could think about slowing the ships down (4.5 for the Scout would still make it faster than almost every other ship out there; ditto for perhaps 4.0 for the Heavy Fighter, and 3.8 for the Trader), and maybe only giving the Scout beam lasers, which are nasty enough, especially if the Scout is small and hard to hit and comes in packs... But the best way to find out is to playtest them a few times.

PS: TGHC – Heavy Fighter, Medium Freighter!

TGHC · Post by **TGHC** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:26 pm

thnak yuo disembodied

Davidtq · Post by **Davidtq** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:42 pm

TGHC wrote:
Fine looking ships, I'm assuming the freighters will dock ok they do look a bit wide.

The cargo capacity of the heavy freighter says 5t and the medium 50t must be a typo.

well done matey.

the heavy is a heavy fighter, not freighter, so I figured as a dedicated fighter is would have to give up cargo space for equipment especially with those huge engines to give it the speed which is what these ships are supposed to be all about the medium is a freighter hence the larger cargo bay, I am thinking though that a freighter ought to be a bit slower, even if it has got measley shields.

I will give those calculations a go and see what I come up with. I want to keep them "cat" like if I can even if it means sacrificing on additional goodies.

Davidtq · Post by **Davidtq** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:04 pm

OK lets see if this works for the medium trader

base price of 150,000

+20% for the 20tons extra cargo bay.
=180,000
double for the extra 0.1 taking the speed to 0.45
=360,000
-22.5% for reduced energy banks
=279,000
-30% for 3 less missile slots
=195300
-20% for unavailability of beam and pulse lasers equipment options (making ship more difficult to fully equip but keeping it in line with the heavy attack nature)
=156240

I was going to take away the left and right mounts as well which would be a further 20% off why would stalking cats bother with agricultural type mining... I also dont think left or right guns would look right with the design of the ship.

Even if we dissallow the -20% for the lower lasers being unvavailable it still is broadly comparable to the cobra mk3 with these calculations and left and right gun mounts removed.

Will work it out for the others as well

doh just realised I messed up I was thinking of cobra standard cargo bay as 35 t which of course it isnt its 20 ton, I just never fly for long without a cargo bay extension...

which would give a final base price of 169260 with two gun mounts and not allowing any discount for my awkward insistance on high end lasers only on the ship.

Davidtq · Post by **Davidtq** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:18 pm

getting a figure of 126,000 on the heavy fighter with the original specs and removed left and right gun mounts.

will work out the scout and edit that into this post as well

Getting 109670 for the scout which may be a bit on the high side thats with no side mounts, and no extended cargo bay or passenger berths allowed - its a scout ship not a passenger liner...

Post by **Disembodied** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:24 pm

I'm not sure if you can really justify taking money off because beam and pulse lasers are unavailable, if the ship already comes with military lasers attached – or would a new ship have no weapons at all, except missiles? Either way the price is still coming out at somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000. Not at all bad!

Another way of making the ship(s) more attack- and less defence-oriented, if that's the way you want to go, would be to make shield boosters and/or military shields non-fittable.

Davidtq · Post by **Davidtq** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:32 pm

Disembodied wrote:
I'm not sure if you can really justify taking money off because beam and pulse lasers are unavailable, if the ship already comes with military lasers attached – or would a new ship have no weapons at all, except missiles? Either way the price is still coming out at somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000. Not at all bad!

Another way of making the ship(s) more attack- and less defence-oriented, if that's the way you want to go, would be to make shield boosters and/or military shields non-fittable.

Good point on standard fit weapons I was going to have a standard fit military up front and a empty bay at the rear. The prefitted military laser price would have to be included in the ship prices.

I was very very tempted to remove the option for shield boosters and energy units before hand, perhaps I could trade that for some more manouverability...

Its definetely an idea helps keep the ships in the rolls the fiction intends...

Post by **Disembodied** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:10 pm

Having the military laser as standard would presumably mean that the ships would only be available at tech level 10 and above planets (unless you want to finagle the story, so that the lasers are bought in specially – which might justify a small upwards tweak to the price: there's the shipping, the customs, all those middlebeings taking their cut...).

I think it's definitely worthwhile sticking with a design philosophy, too: hit-and/or-run would seem to be Kintari hallmarks!

Davidtq · Post by **Davidtq** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:17 pm

Well Im planning on making these "rare" or low chance or turning up, I think the ones that turn up for sale will be "used" ships and still fitted with their "kintari" standard equipment.

The military lasers would have been fitted at "kintar" which would have the tech level to supply those lasers, but the odd beaten up example turning up on the open market being available to non kitari will thus still have military lasers but be available at any tech level world (if possible I would have them turn up for sale only at feudal or anarchy systems

)

This is part of the reason why the player version will have the beat up old ship texture whereas current pirate versions will get nice paint jobs etc

, (the design lends itself to the cock pit haveing a cats head mouth open and the arms reaching forward getting claw decors - a cat pouncing!)

Post by **Disembodied** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:37 pm

Makes sense. Hopefully someone will have cleared out the litter tray first!

I wonder what the outstretched arms would look like with some green glows on the ends? Like cats' eyes in the dark, maybe...?

Davidtq · Post by **Davidtq** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:10 pm

Got the ships down to front and rear weapon mounts only (front only on the scout) got my escapepod and injectors as standard, cant for the life of me work out why my military lasers as standard equipment arent working

<key>standard_equipment</key>

<dict>

<key>extras</key>

<array>
<string>EQ_ESCAPE_POD</string>

<string>EQ_FUEL_INJECTION</string>

</array>
<key>forward_weapon_type</key>

<string>EQ_WEAPON_MILITARY_LASER</string>

<key>missiles</key>

<integer>4</integer>

</dict>

LittleBear · Post by **LittleBear** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:26 pm

Think it may need to go in standard_equipment, as in:-

Code: Select all

<key>standard_equipment</key>
<dict>
<key>extras</key>
<array>
<string>EQ_ESCAPE_POD</string>
<string>EQ_FUEL_INJECTION</string>
<string>EQ_WEAPON_MILITARY_LASER</string> 
</array>
<key>forward_weapon_type</key>
<string>EQ_WEAPON_MILITARY_LASER</string>
<key>missiles</key>
<integer>4</integer>
</dict>

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:41 pm

Just two details about the RS price calculation method:

1. If not all laser types can be mounted at a given side, 5% of the price are deduced. Only if no laser can be mounted at all, 10% are deduced. And if Military Lasers can be fitted, I wouldn`t apply that at all, as those are the strongest lasers ingame.

So a ship with no side lasers at all would cost 20% less, one with only beam lasers max possible on both sides would cost 10% less, and one with "only" the strongest (military, as yet) lasers on the sides should cost the same as base price, imo ...

Note that, when from Oolite 1.72 on presumably, player turrets finally do work, the ship prices in my OXP will go up by 75.000 Cr per turret in addition to the normal lasers ...

2. If an item of equipment - even if a ship`s standard equipment - is not available at the TL from which on the ship is available, the ship will in RS still be available at its own TL. An adder (TL 1-5) with a Military Shield (TL 13 or 14 I think) will still be available from TL 1 onwards, albeit at a ridiculous price.

My in-game reasoning for this is that the higher-tech equipment items have been brought in from higher-TL systems, while the ships were built in-system.

Just my 0.2 Cr,

L