Realistic Shipyards V3.02 in development

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:03 am

Please, don't tinker with the roles.

Please!

You can really break a lot of things here, and the chance of creating weird, unwanted, senseless results are really big.

Please!

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:47 am

Please!

You can really break a lot of things here, and the chance of creating weird, unwanted, senseless results are really big.

Please!

Wow. OK, OK.

*Whispers & raises hand *

May I ask a question there?

Is it, in your opinion, save to use the standard roles of Oolite? Or roles like "military" or "miner" (which sound pretty basic to me)?

I mean, I was thinking of adding more different roles to more different ships, perhaps I again made a bit of bombastic formulation there again

And, according to your and other`s advice, I sharply separated "player" and "non-player" roles absolutely everywhere including where other OXP`s authors hadn`t done so.

L

Commander McLane · Post by **Commander McLane** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:41 am

As you still don't seem to have understood what the roles are all about, I am afraid you will break a lot of things.

If I look at the lists of roles you posted earlier, I can just say that most of it doesn't make any sense.

Future Meta-Roles:

Player:

<key>roles</key>
<string>player</string>

Fighter:

<key>roles</key>
<string>police interceptor hunter pirate asp-pirate escort rescueship wingman aegidian-pcc military

Police/Navy:

<key>roles</key>
<string>police interceptor hunter escort rescueship PoliceKestrel KestrelInterceptor navy_carrier carrier wingman military

Pirate:

<key>roles</key>
<string>trader pirate scavenger escort wingman aegidian-pcc

Trader/Miner:

<key>roles</key>
<string>trader sunskim-trader shuttle hermit-ship dredger miner aegidian-pcc sunskim-tradertrader

Explorer:

<key>roles</key>
<string>rescueship hermit-ship dredger miner morrigan aegidian-pcc sunskim-tradertrader sunskim-trader

Racer/Joyrider:

<key>roles</key>
<string>hatchling hbr1 hbr2 hbr3 racersupport zorg2 sidewinder-racer zorg1 racer legal_zorg_sidewinder_pb mossport chicaneer cribo2 cribo4 dragster kukri1 kukri2

Heavy Carrier Vessel:

<key>roles</key>
<string>police interceptor hunter pirate escort rescueship PoliceKestrel KestrelInterceptor navy_carrier carrier dredger military

Weird:

<key>roles</key>
<string>cobra35 cobraclipper cobraclipper-max cobraclipperX asp-pirate dragonpirate dragonhunter adder_hr krait_hr python_hr sabre gemini liner trident delta liner strelka starseeker asp-bad ferdepee firewasp-NPC griffin2 constrictor icour-pirate ic-pirate viperc falcon bandycourier bandy1 GCbb mil-bb chuckwalla chuckwalla-esc eelrapier eel1 eel2 taipan bushmaster_miner cat chameleon ghavial iguana iguanaspike monitor ophidian oph0 oph1 salamander taranis_defender pelamis bellatrix rigel saiph shreddie_cargo shtail shreddies stingray supercobra velocity170 wolf</string>

First of all I have no idea what you want to say with "Meta-Roles". There is no such thing as "meta-roles" in the game, and there won't be in the future. It is just a term you invented, which actually means - nothing.

I don't really see the point in (again) explaining you what roles are in the first place, and what exactly Oolite does with them, as your above posts seem to indicate to me that there is hardly any learning curve. So I really don't know where to start.

For instance there is the entry "dredger" in a couple of your roles-keys. This makes no sense at all. To which ships do you want to assign these roles-keys? The role "dredger" makes sense for only one ship in the whole Ooniverse - the Dredger. Not for any other trader, miner or explorer. Because if I as a scripter for some reason want to create a dredger next to the witchpoint (and the way of doing this is creating a ship with the role "dredger"!!!!!), I don't want any other ship, but only a Deep Space Dredger to appear. So only in the shipdata of this particular ship the entry "dredger" makes any sense. Nowhere else.

If you put it anywhere else, you don't create variety, but confusion and ... bugs.

Because the users of my OXP will send me a bug-report, saying: at the place where I according to your story expected to find a Deep Space Dredger, there was only an Urutu (or whatever, depending on in which shipdata.plist-entries you are planning to add the role "dredger").

Another example: in a couple of places you have put the role "aegidian-pcc". This is again a ship-specific role. It refers exclusively to the Python Class Cruiser created by Aegidian. If anybody calls for this specific ship, he wants to have this specific ship, not any other. Again you don't create variation, but bugs.

The whole list you posted there above tells me that you haven't understood the very basics of what the roles-key is about.

So, please: Don't fiddle with it!

Or we will come to the point where each and every other OXP-author will have to put up a huge warning in his OXP:

WARNING! This OXP will not work in any way, if you have Realistic Shipyards installed! Please remove Realistic Shipyards before installing this OXP.

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:02 am

Hallo Commander McLane,

yes, I see what you mean and have already come off of the list above.

The "meta-roles" was an association method for myself to assign ships a broader role span, like "fighter" could be a "meta-role" (out-game, for planning, in my head!) for in-game roles like "police, hunter, interceptor, pirate" etc.

Yes? The idea is, to for example assign some of the other fast new ships to the lane racers, to make a few slow and big ships with fuel scoops also miners, to add variance to navy and police forces etc.

But I understand that you`re saying that anything used specifically in another OXP as "special role" will fast break some context I don`t (and can`t) even know about. Assigning the role "dredger" to a Boa would, for example, then produce bad results.

I don`t want to open some Pandora box here, I will stay with the classic roles.

But I would find a good idea to create some kind of lexicon of all the roles in the whole game, that might make cross-referencing different OXPs easier (and less problematic). This would be of interest I think not only to my OXP.

Thanks for warning me!

L

Selezen · Post by **Selezen** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:05 am

I'm starting to worry that too much is being attempted with this realistic Shipyards thing. It's a good concept, to fix the relative pricing and realism of the shipyard model and it looks like it works really really well, but please don't try to do too much with it.

L, the last post you made makes me think of this rhyme:

Three OXPs for the space stations over the sky,
Seven for the Anarchists in their halls of durallium,
Nine for Insect Thargoids doomed to die,
One for the Shipmaster in his dark ship
In the Land of Lestradae where the Shipyards lie.
One OXP to rule them all, One OXP to find them,
One OXP to bring them all and in the PLISTs bind them
In the Land of Lestradae where the Shipyards lie.

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:07 am

TGHC · Post by **TGHC** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:22 am

Nice one Sez.

Cmdr. Maegil · Post by **Cmdr. Maegil** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:23 pm

It was way, way freakier to read it here than it ever was in LOTR, and that includes even the Black Speech of Mordor...

It might be because it touches our own mental context more closely, IDK. In any case, it was a great spoof, but please don't do that again!

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:31 pm

It was way, way freakier to read it here than it ever was in LOTR, and that includes even the Black Speech of Mordor...

It might be because it touches our own mental context more closely, IDK. In any case, it was a great spoof, but please don't do that again!

[hollow laughter] Who says there was a spoof involved?

Today the Ooniverse ... and tomorrow ... [/hollow laughter]

Lestradae Duval

PS:

Cmdr. Maegil · Post by **Cmdr. Maegil** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:59 pm

Selezen wrote:
Three OXPs for the space stations over the sky,
Seven for the Anarchists in their halls of durallium,
Nine for Insect Thargoids doomed to die,
One for the Shipmaster in his dark ship
In the Land of Lestradae where the Shipyards lie.
One OXP to rule them all, One OXP to find them,
One OXP to bring them all and in the PLISTs bind them
In the Land of Lestradae where the Shipyards lie.

The change in the coder's voice was astounding. Suddenly it became menacing, powerful, harsh as hard vacuum. A shadow seemed to pass over the high sun, and the cockpit for a moment grew dark. All trembled, and the Elite commanders stopped their ears.

'The fellowship of the Torus', Book II, Chapter 2 'Council of Ahruman'

Will we ever have a Lord of the Torii.OXP?

Selezen · Post by **Selezen** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:17 pm

Does that mean that Giles has become an OXP-wraith?

The black station of Minas Diso casts a shadow on the galaxy...

Anyway, glad you found it funny - I think that listening to the unabridged reading of LOTR on MP3 is having an effect.

I don't want to lose the spirit of the warning though - I worry that the Realistic Ringyards...I mean Shipyards is becoming something of a wrapper for other OXPs. When it starts to look like it will restrict the writing of other OXPs then I think it's gone too far, and letters of fire will appear around the edge...

Ash oxp durbatulûk...

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:28 pm

Hi Selezen,

Fear not! Hope is on the horizon!

I don't want to lose the spirit of the warning though - I worry that the Realistic Ringyards...I mean Shipyards is becoming something of a wrapper for other OXPs. When it starts to look like it will restrict the writing of other OXPs then I think it's gone too far, and letters of fire will appear around the edge...

Alas, I got a bit carried away indeed. Day and night I would belabour, have another idea, then another, and work on it, test it, back to work, etc. ...

Earnestly, I have decided to scrap my further ideas, like escorts (not easy to do, difficult to balance), too complicated/risky things with roles etc.

I will soon release my final version of the Realistic Shipyards. There are two people who have said they would create missions that could be integrated and would fit topically, but aside that and the occasional bugfix the upcoming release is the last release.

That it has become an umbrella for ships is not so bad. It makes the Ooniverse bigger, I think if someone wanted to write an OXP that wants to combine all those possibilities without fifteen dependancies they can do so by using the Realistic Shipyards as a base to draw material from or as a sole dependency (no, no ring!

).

So no words of fire, I hope, except perhaps inspiring ones.

Keep cool!

L

Commander Mysenses · Post by **Commander Mysenses** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:39 pm

Sorry ditched this OXP... twas draggin' my system down,
It's no fun dogfighting at 8fps!

Lestradae · Post by **Lestradae** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:23 pm

Hm,

Sorry ditched this OXP... twas draggin' my system down,
It's no fun dogfighting at 8fps!

Yes, it`s not strict mode exactly. Perhaps that`s one of the things nagging you on to buy a better computer or graphics card?

I was just playtesting V3.01 ... the space battles now ...

Sorry it didn`t work out for you

L

Frame · Post by **Frame** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:33 pm

Commander Mysenses wrote:
Sorry ditched this OXP... twas draggin' my system down,
It's no fun dogfighting at 8fps!

same, however... i went down to 50 fps... im used to 100 / 75...

So i can afford to play this OXP... But i have found some problems

Twin plasma Cannon...
In short, you can shoot it, but it does not seem to do any damage... and uses a large amount of energy pr shot. maybe its usefull for shooting down missiles, havent had luck yet in regard to that...

Ship Swift with a speed of 0.765. ramming anything results in lightspeed, looks cool though with the exhaust arched all over the place

...

Ship Vampire (system (galcorp) police)...
Does not come to your aid, when attacked, even in the safe zone...

Tie fighter & Xwing (models are to tiny), same with lambda shuttle, The Xwing should be at least the size of the Adder... the Numbers in the DAT file cant possibly be true...

Xwing Dat file says
//model size: 37.689 x 14.184 x 31.489

Thats width , height , length

Somehow i cant see the X wing being 14 meters high ? :-S, so much more funny that it is so tiny in game.. and it is not 37 meters wide nor 31 meters long... not when you recall it from the movie...

"//" = remark, therefore it is not used for anything since this means the rest of the text on that line is ignored... it is just information..

Adder Dat file says

//model size: 30.000 x 8.000 x 45.000

So the two ships should be compareble in size when viewed on screen..

But they are not.. The author of the ships, must have had his settings wrong or something when he saved the wings obj file... before the Conversion to Dat...

I also recall that the Condor ship, segfaults... a look in the stderr.txt file should tell you whats wrong...

these are errors i found on the first two runs, and im sure i would find a Tonnage more...

...

Cheers Frame...