Pirate Flotilla OXP ... formerly escort oxp

[matt634]

So, I spent quite a bit of time on my commute today thinking about the escort oxp briefly mentioned in the discussion forum. I have always been curious about providing escorts, but never thought they'd be that useful considering players would be forced to traverse the entire space lane without the jump drive. But maybe that's an even trade off.

Here's what I'm envisioning -

Escort Hangers in orbit around planets with an adequate tech level. Visit the hanger and you're greeted with the offer to purchase an escort contract from various providers. Maybe two or three different company's with the high end offering shiny new, well armed, well piloted sidewinders at a premium price and at the low end rusty, poorly armed, poorly trained escorts at a more affordable price. Additionally, there could be independent contractors flying an array of different ships. Their prices would vary as would their skill and reliability - some could be very competent, others might flee as opposed to fight, and still others might decide your ship makes an easy target I would probably also make military escorts available at SecComs which offer the best service at the highest prices.

What do people think? Would anyone use the service? What should the price structure look like?

[Disembodied]

Personally I'm not sure I would use it... I don't know if I could stand flying all the way in without using the jumpdrive. Also, it might unbalance some missions if I could head off for trouble with a posse of my own.

[Lestradae]

What do people think? Would anyone use the service? What should the price structure look like?

I think it`s a good idea. I would definitely use the service as a player.

In addition, for my OXP, I would be very interested in introducing a possibility to give player carrier ships escorts that can be "launched" (i.e. spawned) or "docked" (i.e. taken out) from a player carrier ship.

The prices should be steep, as there is a big advantage for the player. Like, 1000 Cr per crappy rusty Sidewinder mercenary via 3000 Cr per new Cobra MkIII with competent pilot up to 20.000Cr+ for a military or SuperCobra escort (per ship!) etc.

Also, if this becomes a player possibility, shouldn`t also non-player freighters etc. have the possibility to gather an escort? Some Oo-Haul transport might then show up in an anarchy, hire ten Cobra MkIII`s and still get its 150 tons of firearms through the blockade with profit?

Just some ideas.

For the speed problem: Couldn`t you just give escorts the fuel injectors and tell their script to use them if the player uses them? Then you would neither have to keep to the space lanes nor to stay in "slooow mode" all the time ...

Anyways, brilliant idea!

L

[FSOneblin]

You could try scripting them as asteroids or a non-powered object so you could use your jump drive. Also, I think you should have to pay for overhauls, and 500 credits per jump for crappy rusty sidewinders, and when one dies, you have to pay for a another. Over time, they could become experienced, They could quite, get a new ship, exe. Oh, the first sentence show's my knowledge of scripting.

Don't panic: FSOneblin

[Frame]

Personally I'm not sure I would use it... I don't know if I could stand flying all the way in without using the jumpdrive. Also, it might unbalance some missions if I could head off for trouble with a posse of my own.

i 2nd that, when i first played Elite, i couldnt get the J button to work (it worked though). it was a mistake #50 = "mistake sits 50 cencimeters from the screen" ...

so i flew the entire length of from jump point to the planet... it took forever, like 2 hours or something...

on a side note... The j button worked, but there where no smooth transistion to warp speed, instead the screen flickerd, and as i was quite far away, i didnt notice the planet got a little bigger with each flicker... (this was on the Commodore 64 version)

only when i got angry and held the button down as in work or crash dammit annoyed fashion, did i see the planet suddenly got bigger....

but the good thing of it was, that i got 50 kills or something on my first run(obviosly dieing a couple of 100 times), which tought me quite well how to deal with pirates, only equipped with a pulse laser...

and the missiles where Very easy to shoot down.. from that point on...

[Lestradae]

i got 50 kills or something on my first run ... with a pulse laser ... and the missiles where Very easy to shoot down..

Can he get one of those sun monument thingies?

* slips away *

L

[Disembodied]

I'm still pretty sure I wouldn't use it, but it does throw up some interesting design problems -- especially in the pricing. Maybe prices could be linked, at least in part, to the player's kills? If the player is Mostly Harmless, then the escorts wouldn't expect anything more than routine piracy, and would charge a standard rate. If the player is Deadly, then the escorts would have to ask themselves, "Just what sort of trouble is this guy expecting?" and might well ask for extra danger money.

Perhaps, too, the escorts could claim a post-trip bonus on any kills they make -- this would penalise players who start fights and then let their escorts do the dirty work for them. It should also provide a bit of a sliding scale of rates for different system government types, on the basis that there will probably be much more action in, say, a Feudal system as opposed to a Communist one.

[Cmdr. Maegil]

I agree that were some of the escorts can be hired should impact on their AI, and these 'limited escorts' should be much cheaper than the all-round henchbeing (see below).

Pirate cove-hired escorts should be pirates, trading escorts on the main stations, Tharg-hunting parties on military stations, etc.
In these cases, their contracting should have some rules:
- trader escorts are staple, and require the player to stay on the lanes (where others can also assist) and keep a clean criminal record or they refuse to accompany further, they could also run away after receiving moderate damage if outnumbered, or high damage on a balanced/winning fight;
- pirates stay together until so much profit has been amassed, or abandon the player if either the pickings are slim, or the damage too high;
- the military want a go on the Thargs, and could require the player to mis-jump at least once every three jumps or they leave, and attack the player if he commits an offence, but should fight hard and to the death;
- bounty hunters should be the same as the military except that they want to go to anarchies to hunt for pirates, or scoot if the earnings aren't enough.

However, I do like the idea of hiring simple henchbeings who'll follow around and do whatever you please These could come from any poor systems, regarding only the economic level - be it a teeming hi-tech industrial slum with nigh-unbreathable air or a subsistence agriculture village lost in time, it's still a hellhole they want to leave...

The the government level could directly impact on the cost of hiring (corporates the most expensive), and inversely on the henchbeings' fidelity (tribal and feudal societies are the closest-knitted and most honour-bound, whereas to a capitalist, no money can pay for his own life).

The tech level should dictate the ship's quality and also influence the price - and here comes a tandem idea:

--->Should owning several ships, and moving the 'flag' to another ship ever comes, one could hire henchbeing pilots for a regular fee according to the experience to fly the excess ships and follow the player around.
The shipyard screens wouldn't need any alteration aside allowing the player to buy and sell a ship without losing the current one, in respect to building an active fleet - by swapping with the other ship's hired pilot, the player could upgrade or part exchange any of the owned ships.

[matt634]

The escort AI I would script wouldn't do anything other than fight off offenders and fugitives. So, a player couldn't use them for nefarious purposes, just protection. I also would make their services only good for one jump at time - contractors not employees. They'd be good for large bulk haulers that need to travel through a dangerous system on their route, newish commanders that lack advanced combat skills, or commanders like myself that have too much money and think it would be kinda cool. All that said, I'm still not sold on the idea.

EDIT - Wow Maegil, that's an even greater vision than I had pictured for the oxp. Not sure all of it could be done, but definitely some great ideas. I would want to vary the type of escort available by tech level and government. The problem with the pirate escorts (which would be very cool) is scripting an AI that follows the players lead but doesn't attack the player. I guess you could have them only attack "clean" ships and only serve the player if he has an "offender" or "fugitive" rating which only makes sense, pirates only work for other pirates... hmmm.

[LittleBear]

Could just do a scan for shipwithRole: trader, which would make them attack any traders the player and his band of brigands come across without attacking the player.

[Cmdr. Maegil]

The pirate escort theme alone could earn its own independent Pirate_King.OXP...

Gain some reputation as a pirate, and while docked on a pirate cove someone may ask if their ship can join you. While the player is thus associated, all captured cargo is sold on the first stop on a pirate cove, and any other dockings will offer only the option to plunder and escape - so it's good to jump to a system where it can be sold more expensive.

Each docking port could be plundered only once, and only if there are no cops/military/bounty hunters in range (hard to do to a main station, and suicidal with a SecCom).
I don't know how to keep track of what each ship would then carry without putting all the eggs on one basket, and how to make those with a full hold jettison/unload cheap cargo to scoop/plunder more expensive one , but the idea would be for the pirates to find the warehouses and help themselves with what the particular station usually has on stock, 'hunt' for slaves, fit missiles and refuel, or even try to hurriedly equip one upgrade with, let's say, (85-5*equipment's tech level)% chance of success... all free of charge, of course!


In the division, the booty is split with one share to each 'fighter' and two shares to each 'pack mule' (ships holding over 35t - larger crews, but less risk). Anyone not liking their share may leave, usually meaning either the larger ships or the best fighters leave first.
The value of each share becomes an indication of how happy the crews are, and how often more ask to join.

With continued success, more want to join, creating both a redistribution of the shares and an increase on the cargo holds, allowing for longer sorties.
If the gang grows too much and the leader doesn't get enough on each sortie, the shares become too small and some may leave; but if they become too bold, the police starts sending task forces after the marauders...

How to control the group? Give them AIs to remain close to the player, and let them go by the rule of "who leaves need not return" - meaning that anyone that leaves scanner range is either running as a coward, or being abandoned as dead weight.

This motivates the player to assist the others if he doesn't want them to take so much damage as to go into 'FLEE' state and forces him to keep pace with the slower ship and respond to any challenge, or may lose ships as they get held up.
It also saves the hassle of trying to program meeting points. Don't lose them, and that's it.

[Lestradae]

Concerning escorts: Is it possible to add something like ...

Code: Select all

<key>max_defense_ships</key>
          <integer>6</integer>
          <key>defense_ship_role</key>
          <string>xyz-fighter</string>

... into the shipdata.plist of a player ship so that the player`s ship spawns (aka launches) these defense ships in case of an attack

[matt634]

Pirate OXP = infinitely more interesting and more worthwhile than escort OXP. Lets keep the discussion rolling. I'm going to change the title. Joining\leading a pirate band sounds like a great addition. We need more smallish details. Where do the pirates join up? Do we pay them initially or is it based on reputation.? If reputation, how do we calculate it? Kills can't be enough by themselves. How do we distribute the loot?

I'm headed off to a baseball game now, but I'll definitely give this some more thought.

[Disembodied]

Reputation could be calculated based on kills, money and legal status. Maybe something like:

((number of kills) plus (Money/10,000) plus (Legal status*10)) / 1000

Numbers obviously subject to fiddling, depending whether you want to give more or less weight to kills, money or criminality. Kills and legal status might be more immediately impressive than cash: a rich captain could be a successful one, or he might just be a mean one.

Distribution of loot could be trickier. If "hired" pirate ships have cargo scoops, they're probably going to use them. But if they're just Kraits and Mambas then they'll depend on the player to do the harvesting. How about storing the player's bank balance as a variable, measuring how much it has increased by after each launch, and deducting a share for each ship? The Captain -- i.e. the player -- should get at least 50%, the rest being shared out. The size of the payment to the escorts (i.e. what one henchbeing would get) could be another variable which, if it sinks too low when divided by X number of jumps, has a rising chance of causing the escorts to desert. Possibly with extreme prejudice? So if you take on half-a-dozen cronies, you'll have to work hard to keep them happy. But if two of them die, the value of the shares of the others jump, so they'll be easier to keep contented.

It's a ripoff, basically, of the mechanism used in Sid Meier's Pirates!, which I spent many hours playing on the C64. Essentially, lots of pirates = low individual shares = angry pirates.

Don't know if any of this would be workable, of course. I prefer to leave that kind of minor detail to others!

[matt634]

It's a ripoff, basically, of the mechanism used in Sid Meier's Pirates!

EXACTLY!! I play two games on my Mac. One of course is Oolite and the other is an emulated version of Pirates! from the NES. That's what has me so intrigued about this possible OXP. (By the by... did you always kill off your crew before dividing up the plunder, I know I do and it makes me feel so dastardly). I think much of this can be worked out and that's with me using the legacy script - who knows what's possible with java (certainly not me because I don't understand java).