Realistic Shipyards Development Thread :)

Discussion and information relevant to creating special missions, new ships, skins etc.

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Realistic Shipyards Development Thread :)

Post by Lestradae »

Hye to all it may concern!

I proudly present: Realistic Shipyards V1.07! 8)

Download here: http://www.box.net/shared/ws9pgvf8co

At your leisure, you can now upgrade Realistic Shipyards to its next version, the main differences are:

* The file contains a complete ship stats databank for ALL buyable ships of strict mode and ALL oxp ships available.

* Ship distribution further tweaked: ships now appear in a span of tech levels - i.e., from TL 5 to TL 9 etc.

* Squashed a de-facto bug that stopped the highest-end TL 15 ships from ever appearing in the shipyards

* Three new ships for long-time players of Oolite searching for goals in the game still worthy to strive for and adding something new to the experience:

1. The Deep Space Dredger, legendary biggest mining ship and freighter of the Ooniverse, is now buyable for Commanders with REALLY deep pockets (say, 8 million credits). Flies like a mountain on wheels and adds a whole new dimension to the docking experience. But the trading opportunities ... :shock:

2. The Interstellar Explorer: does just that. Scratch the light barrier without stepping on the gas pedal with the fastest ship in the Ooniverse. Sadly, everything but the drive had to be removed to construct this ship that lets even Benulobiweeds finest have a good view into its jet exhaust ...

3. The Navy Leviathan, an allmighty Behemoth Mothership, becomes available for Commanders with an Elite Rating of ELITE (10000). Yes, just ELITE is not enough for the federation of Elite pilots to offer you this ship, as this is the ultimate battleship of the Ooniverse.

... and many other little tweaks I won`t bore you with but hope will enhance the game experience.

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For those who don`t have the Realistic Shipyards yet :shock: - a not-so-small introduction follows:

This is a complete overhaul of Oolite's shipyards system.

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* Consistent Ship Prices & Tech Levels for ALL ships available in Oolite (strict and OXPs)
* Diverse alternate beginnings for Newbies due to better ship availability
* Game Balance & Strategic Elements concerning ships enhanced
* Creative solution to the Uber-ship problem
* Six cool new ships for veteran players

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Special thanks for their support (and/or work under the Creative Commons License) go to:

* Harald.ist.org (Who helped me create the stolen Thargoid Warship)
* Sung (For kindly providing the Thargoid Redux PNG from his brilliant textures)
* Charlie (Who`s reworked Condor OXP provided the basis for the playable Condor Flagship)
* Sabre (Model & textures for the playable Deep Space Dredger)
* Murgh (Model & textures for the Interstellar Explorer under the Creative Commons License)
* Aegidian (Oolite itself + Model & textures for the Navy Leviathan under the Creative Commons License)

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Improvements on game mechanics & overall atmosphere:

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* Game Mechanics - Consistent Ship Prices & Tech Levels: The prices that ships have and the Tech Levels as of which they are available are now completely consistent within the game, irrelevant of whether they are from strict mode or any OXP available today. The more a ship can do the more expensive it is and the higher the Tech Level nescessary to have a chance of it appearing in the shipyard.
* Atmosphere - Consistent Ship Prices & Tech Levels: What Tech Level a world has can now directly be experienced in its shipyard as well, not only in the equipment dock. The kind of ships that appear at a given Tech Level have a certain feel to them of being in the same league - the reason being, that they actually are.

* Game Mechanics - Alternate Beginnings: Newbies to Oolite were often complaining about the too-difficult starting conditions. The question was, how-to make the game more easy to access at the beginning without implementing "get-rich-fast" schemes. This OXP probably solves that problem. With many ships cheaper than the Cobra MkIII available from the Lave shipyard onwards, which are characterised by specific strengths but also major weaknesses compared to the Jameson`s Cobra, the beginner`s path becomes much clearer. New, interesting options become available from the very start of the game without tipping the game balance or the implementation of get-rich schemes!
* Atmosphere - Alternate Beginnings: The game`s beginning is much more complex. Any Jameson can now sell the Cobra MkIII for a transporter which has 100 tons of Cargo Space but no Lasers and no missiles and start trading in earnest; or buy a ship with 0.4 LS and do UPS-Courier runs; or buy a Fighter Ship with good shields and the like and do some beginner`s random hits mission. But this comes at the price of exclusion of any other career path - until the very first trading/courier/fighter scheme enables the beginner to re-buy a ship with more options - or just more of the same.

* Game Mechanics - Game Balance & Strategic Elements: I have spent a lot of time thinking about game mechanics, balance and suggestions from members on the Oolite Boards before creating the prices & TL formulae and this OXP. Ships now become a real, plannable strategic element of the game, instead of insanely over- or underpriced flavour stuff alone. As the Realistic Shipyards` prices and availabilities have directly to do with the ship's quality - and also their individual combinations of strengths & weaknesses - with the help of the included ship stats FOR ALL THE SHIPS currently available IN ANY OXP (!) you can strategically plan your ascent to Elite veteran with an eye on your Credits and tastes alike.
* Atmosphere - Game Balance & Strategic Elements: Think about it - what kind of person do you want to play in Oolite? A pirate? A trader? A law enforcement officer? Space Navy? A courier? A bit of everything or any given combination of the above? Now those are real choices that affect the game. What kind of money can you spend? What might, depending on the aforementioned choices, become your next ship? And the ship after that? And where will you have to go to acquire that kind of ship? All this will now not only happen in your head, but in the game.

* Game Mechanics - Uber Ship problem: There are no more Uber ship problems, as there are no more Uber ships. That doesn`t mean that I`ve changed anything about their stats (I haven`t). But now with the Realistic Shipyards OXP, Uber ships simply become the High-End ships of the Ooniverse, fitting into the overall game mechanics without breaking the game or getting boring. They are available only in systems with the highest Tech Levels and have prices that can reach far beyond the 1 Million Credit range - but that`s only realistic.
* Atmosphere - Uber Ship problem: No more guilty conscience if you fly the better-at-everything Super Cobra, the mighty (original) Imperial Courier or even the interstellar-capable ultrafast Morrigan Beyonder Vessel. Because if you own one of those ships with this OXP in, you`ve fought and traded and did missions long and hard to acquire that much money, and perhaps searched for those vessels a long time in shipyards of the highest supertechnology that the Ooniverse has to offer: You`ve earned it! :)

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Overview

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It all started when I was unnerved at the absurd ship pricing in Oolite. Why should you pay so much money for an Asp MkII if it`s really such a let-down from the Jameson`s Cobra MkIII? And aren`t the ultra-fast Benulobiweed ships, the Imperial Courier Battleship and the better-in-all-and-everything SuperCobra Uber ships, to be shunned by the honest player?

I thought not. What was missing for me was a method of accurate pricing, that actually had some kind of relation to any ship`s performance. So I devised a method to derive a more realistic ship pricing from the ship stats. How large is its Cargo Bay? How fast is it? Can every piece of equipment be fitted in? And, most importantly, is it a ship that unites loads of different bonuses (SuperCobra) or maluses (Adder) at once?

I believe this OXP solves the problem of Uber ships and strange prices alike. Now, if you like to own an Asp MkII just for fun, you don`t have to pay twice the price of a Cobra MkIII to do it. If you want to fly the SuperCobra but it felt like cheating, not any more. Because now you`ll have to earn it - by paying 1.6 million Credits ...

In the early and middle stages of the game, you will know that if you buy a ship with more of something, you pay more. And the other way around. Oolite now realistically trades off cargo space against speed against handling and so on - giving you as the player transparent choices of what you are going for. You can work yourself up a continuous ladder of better and better ships.

I think that the Realistic Shipyards OXP can even open up new Vistas of gameplay for Deadly & Elite veteran Commanders. Seen everything? Won against anything? Well, now you might buy and fight some Dreadnought Carrier with 1000 tons of Cargo, 10 Energy Banks & Missile Slots that can fly at 0.75 LS! You will just have to earn an unprecedented 60 million Credits first. So the game will still have to offer the Elite veteran in his Iron Ass SuperCobra something to strive (and trade!) for.

This is my first OXP, and the first time in the last twenty years that I tried my hand at something remotely resembling programming, so bear with me. If you find any bugs or performance issues that are not already listed here, feel free to PM me and I`ll see what I can do about it.

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How-To switch from your game without Realistic Shipyards to one with this OXP in (without cheating):

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The Prices and Availablities of ships in the Realistic Shipyards OXP are often massively different from their original ones. If you are starting a completely new game with Commander Jameson anyways, ignore the following text. But if you no longer own your original Cobra MkIII and don`t want to cheat or loose a fortune when changing from Oolite without to Oolite with the Realistic Shipyards OXP in, I suggest you act as follows:

1. Transfer your most recent saved game to a version of Oolite without the "lose 25% when buying/selling ships" - thing, if possible.

2. Buy a standard Cobra MkIII in this version.

3. Change back to your original Oolite version with the Realistic Shipyards OXP on.

4. Think about your new options and with which kind of ship you want to continue your game.

5. Buy the new ship with the Realistic Shipyards OXP on.

6. Enjoy the game including the new shipyards options.

A second possibility could be:

1. Find out what your ship used to cost without the OXP and what it costs with the OXP.

2. Calculate the difference in the amount of credits so that it fits again. I.e., you fly a Tesoura, which used to cost 270.000 Cr and costs 430.000 Cr now. You own 250.000 Cr. The difference is that you would have 430.000 - 270.000 ~ 160.000 Cr to much. Deduce them from your free cash 250.000 - 160.000 ~ 90.000 Cr. That`s your new cash balance.

3. Edit your savegame credit stats accordingly. In the above example, you would edit your credits down from 250.000 to 90.000 Cr. From then onwards the Shipyards OXP will play out properly anyways.

You don`t have to follow the above routine to play Zzzz Realistic Shipyards OXP. You can just put the OXP into your AddOns folder and start playing. But, if you don`t, you might effectively cheat or lose a fortune by doing that. It`s your decision; you have been warned :)

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Known Performance Issues

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* Do not rename this OXP! The Zzzz - Beginning is nescessary so that the Ship Pricing OXP`s revised prices and Tech Level limits overwrite all other ship price and TL stats, so the Z`s have to stay on or the OXP will not work properly.

* If you find any bugs or performance issues that are not already listed here, feel free to PM me and I`ll see what I can do about it!

* In Oolite 1.70, it is irrelevant for the function of the Realistic Shipyards OXP if you have all ship OXPs in existence installed or the Realistic Shipyards is the only OXP in your AddOns folder or anything inbetween. Note that it is currently unknown if this OXP can work with versions of Oolite below 1.70. Feedback is appreciated!

* The standard equipment a ship is bought with isn`t always awarded by the game as it should. This is not a Realistic Shipyards - specific bug, it seems to be a problem of the core game.

* I will be very grateful if other OXP`ers notify me if they create new OXP`s with shipyard.plists in or change existing one`s. I will attempt to upgrade the Realistic Shipyards OXP so that it covers everything shipwise currently available. Just PM me with the stats of your new/revised ship and I will include the additional information.

And, most important of all: Have fun! :)

Lestradae
Last edited by Lestradae on Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Selezen »

This is fast becoming a MUST HAVE oxp for the game. Fantastic work, Lestradae.

8)
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Post by Lestradae »

Thanks very much :oops: ... what a compliment :shock:

Happy to see that my (rekindled; I was one of those teenage C64 elite enthusiasts) obsession with this game is also shared by others. 8)

Cheers :D

L
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Post by CaptKev »

I totally agree with Selezen, excellent job Lestradae. Could you do something with the BSG ship?
Download Fighter HUD, Stingray and System Redux from the EliteWiki
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.:.

Post by Lestradae »

Hye CaptKev,
I totally agree with Selezen, excellent job Lestradae.
Thanks for the praise :oops: :)
Could you do something with the BSG ship?
Wow, that one looks really cool!

Well, I would like to, but the new ship types that are emerging as a consequence of my OXP making super freighters and carrier battleships a balanced possibility are also creating a few questions.

1. How would a ship like the BSG dock? We could make it a super carrier vessel for superrich players allright, but how to dock?

The Navy Leviathan can barely dock (just so), and the Deep Space Dredger can only dock with the main station and that only with the "Shift-D" help of Docking Computers, it screeeches when it exits the station and in suspense of disbelief we have to assume that the Dredger is never actually entering the station, but more like doing a docking maneuvre like the european Jules Verne vessel does with the ISS, thereby blocking the station entrance for the duration of its stay! :shock:

2. It would be cool if a carrier could actually eject ships, that do escort or attack enemies and can re-land later.

I could imagine that this is possible within Oolite`s code to script in for a player ship, but this is far beyond my capabilities as a scripter. If I "program" my OXP, I try to find out what the code does and then copy-and-paste it and try and tweak around until it does what I want it to do without a real understanding.

But, if you could script something like that in, it would be a new dimension started in player ships, and you would surely feature in the very first line of the "Special thanks go to" section. :D

3. The game balance issue. A super carrier that can actually launch ships and has their own way of docking stations would need new challenges.

The other super-ships I created for the Shipyards OXP all have their drawbacks & limitations. The Interstellar Explorer is ultra-ultrafast, but can do as good as nothing else but do courier- or, perhaps, bombing runs. The Deep Space Dredger is the slowest and most slowly turning ship in the game. The Constrictor & stolen Warship cost 3 million credits. The two Navy Carriers available cost 15 and 41 million credits and are available only to ELITE players.

So, in my opinion, if we create the super star destroyer, we should also create the super uber challenge for it.

In other words: I`d love to include this extremely cool looking carrier, if you`d be up to help me solve the three problems above.

Is that a deal? :twisted:

Cheers :wink:

L

EDIT: Wait a moment ... I am getting an idea. What if this ship would be made not into a player ship, but into a BEYONDER SHIPYARD, an idea I got from the Morrigan.oxp?

The Beyonders, secretive interstellar cyborg traders on the borders of solar systems, could have some of their gargantuan ultratech vessels cruise far-out from the witchpoint - use BSGs for that.

A Beyonder Carrier could have a shipyard and (cheaper?; 0.8 value?) equipment dock that could be a TL15 or, for all intents & purposes, TL17 or 20!

And all kinds of follow-up things. Like, something akin to the Rock Hermit Locator, an even more expensive (80.000 Cr) Beyonder Carrier locator, to find all the goodies far out in perhaps every fifth or tenth system?

EDIT 2.0: Beyonder Mothership & Beyonder Beacon Locator?
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Post by matt634 »

Nice work Lestradae!

You may want to make a name change in Version 2.0 as well.

The Navy Leviathan, an allmighty Behemoth Mothership
Leviathan's and Behemoth's are complete different totally separate carrier ships. The Leviathan is part of the military.oxp

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The carrier you've incorporated is a Behemoth INB 21.
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Woops ...

Post by Lestradae »

Hye Matt634!
Nice work Lestradae!
Thanks! :D
Leviathan's and Behemoth's are complete different totally separate carrier ships. The Leviathan is part of the military.oxp The carrier you've incorporated is a Behemoth INB 21.
You`re right! I didn`t know that there was a ship already in the game named Leviathan. :?

But, I`m wondering ... should that be a problem? Perhaps those are two versions of the same basic shipdesign, say? Is your`s also called "Navy Leviathan"? Is your Leviathan also buyable for players? :shock:

I would suggest just leaving it as it is. If you really don`t like that, I will change its name from version 1.08 onwards, but I would like to let it stay as it is. 8)

What do you say?

Cheers :)

L
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Post by matt634 »

The Leviathan isn't from my oxp - it's from Murgh's military oxp. I guess you could leave the name the same, but it will be confusing. The Leviathan looks nothing like the Behemoth (see picture above). It would be like making the constrictor playable but renaming it an anaconda. Why change the name at all? And, if you must change the name, why use an already existing name?

I guess what I'm saying is: doesn't it make sense to call a Behemoth a Behemoth?
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Post by Lestradae »

The Leviathan looks nothing like the Behemoth (see picture above). It would be like making the constrictor playable but renaming it an anaconda. Why change the name at all? And, if you must change the name, why use an already existing name?
Ahem ... I already told you that, if you re-read my above posting. I did that because I did not know that something called a Leviathan was already in somewhere.
I guess what I'm saying is: doesn't it make sense to call a Behemoth a Behemoth?
Because the inside is not like a usual Behemot. It`s enhanced even further. I wanted a name of its own as it`s thought to be the ultimate battleship, as something to aspire to for those who already have everything else.
I guess you could leave the name the same, but it will be confusing.
I`ll think about changing it for 1.08 ... there are already so many names used :shock:

Is Juggernaut already in use?

Cheers 8)

L
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Post by matt634 »

Ahem ... I already told you that, if you re-read my above posting.
I did read your posting above. You asked me directly if keeping the name would be a good idea.
I would like to let it stay as it is.

What do you say?
I then told you why I think it would be confusing to call it a Leviathan and odd to not just call it what it is - a Behemoth. I guess I can understand your reasoning that internally its superior to a regular Behemoth and deserves a different name. Really though, its far weaker than a Behemoth (no fighters and 1 laser vs 6 fighters and 18 plasma cannons), so maybe it should be called the Navy Kitten :wink: You can call it an adder if you'd like; I was just trying to be helpful - no hard feelings :D
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Post by Lestradae »

OK, OK, OK :)
Really though, its far weaker than a Behemoth (no fighters and 1 laser vs 6 fighters and 18 plasma cannons), so maybe it should be called the Navy Kitten
Ouch. If you put it like that :(
I was just trying to be helpful
Yeah, yeah, you are preaching to the converted, I`m already convinced! :P
no hard feelings
Definitely not! 8)

Now, do you know - is Juggernaut already a given name? As, otherwise, I might call it "Juggernaut" from 1.08 onwards ... :idea:

Cheers :D

L
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Post by matt634 »

Juggernaut is unused as far as I know.
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Post by Kaks »

matt634 wrote:
maybe it should be called the Navy Kitten :wink:
Uh-oh, "and think of all the storage space" :wink:

Maybe we shouldn't let Captain Hesperus see this thread, the Dubious Profit is on its last legs as it is!:D
Hey, free OXPs: farsun v1.05 & tty v0.5! :0)
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Post by Lestradae »

Oh, no. OH. NO! My inner eyes have been blinded!
Maybe we shouldn't let Captain Hesperus see this thread, the Dubious Profit is on its last legs as it is!
Am I the only one who sees Captain Hesperus in his brand-new ship, a Deep Space Dredger listening to the name of "Dubious Profit II" and all its 2000 tons of cargo hold are filled to the brim with ... :shock:

It`s too terrible to behold. :?
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Re: .

Post by Captain Hesperus »

Lestradae wrote:
Oh, no. OH. NO! My inner eyes have been blinded!
Maybe we shouldn't let Captain Hesperus see this thread, the Dubious Profit is on its last legs as it is!
Am I the only one who sees Captain Hesperus in his brand-new ship, a Deep Space Dredger listening to the name of "Dubious Profit II" and all its 2000 tons of cargo hold are filled to the brim with ... :shock:

It`s too terrible to behold. :?
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Captain Hesperus
The truth, revealed!!
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