shields booster and extra energy unit? military lasers? pah

[TGHC]

i do need new tactics as i keep loosing equipment and cargo with the number of hits I take. 4 ships incoming and the front shield is gone before I can get close enough to hit them. Since the laser overheats that quick taking long range shots doesn't help since they are that small in the site.

I usually just do a head on pass and try to split them, then take them on one by one. Running away doesn't help. they can still hit me at longer ranges

Some groups of pirates are wimpy, but the ones that are really vicious need to be "educated", I tend to target one with an ECM hardened missile before they start firing, and wait for them to come on to me, as soon as they open up with lasers, let off the missile and fuel inject through them, then have a go with the aft laser, untill it overheats and then switch to the front laser, and back to aft etc. If things get too hot during the dogfight , you can always re-target and loose off more ECM hardened missiles.

I assume of course that you have shield boosters, miltary shield enhancement, extra energy unit, naval energy unit, cloaking device, etc.

[LittleBear]

If you don't in Oolite, your not really ready for combat. I think a shield booters and extra energy unit ECM and a good front and rear lasers are the minium. One of the thinks I realy like about Oolite, is that it is more "realistic" than classic Elite. In Elite allthough you could buy all the extra stuff NPCs always had a pulse laser and it was rare for them to have an ECM. In Oolite every item of equipment is available to NPCs and if you install OXPs, sure you can buy the ship but so can pirates!

I got blown up a lot when I started (as I play with all the OXPs in). I traded in for Murgh's rusty python and just traded with my 100 hold a lot in a lightly armed Python between Mega Safe systems, injectoring away if there was any trouble, relying on by Shield Boosters to take the worst of it. At 100 tonns a run, I soon had enough cash to buy and kit out a PCC and started hitting the anarchies with an empty hold and a fuel scoop!

[nemesis]

i do need new tactics as i keep loosing equipment and cargo with the number of hits I take. 4 ships incoming and the front shield is gone before I can get close enough to hit them. Since the laser overheats that quick taking long range shots doesn't help since they are that small in the site.

I usually just do a head on pass and try to split them, then take them on one by one. Running away doesn't help. they can still hit me at longer ranges

Some groups of pirates are wimpy, but the ones that are really vicious need to be "educated", I tend to target one with an ECM hardened missile before they start firing, and wait for them to come on to me, as soon as they open up with lasers, let off the missile and fuel inject through them, then have a go with the aft laser, untill it overheats and then switch to the front laser, and back to aft etc. If things get too hot during the dogfight , you can always re-target and loose off more ECM hardened missiles.

I assume of course that you have shield boosters, miltary shield enhancement, extra energy unit, naval energy unit, cloaking device, etc.

shield booster - check
military shield enhancement - nope
extra energy unit - check
naval energy unit - nope
cloaking device - nope

[Cmdr Wyvern]

The choice of ship can make a difference, too.
I'm currently flying a fully dressed PTSF 200, and despite it's weaknesses (fragile hull, weak energy system, only one laser mount), it's nearly as quick as the most agile pirate fighter, and it's compact size makes it a hard target to draw a bead on.
Once I get on a pirate's tail in the 200, it's only a matter of time till I shoot him to bits. Try as he might, he can't shake me.

[TGHC]

Ok Nemisis, for starters get the Naval Energy Unit and the Military Shield Enhancement, they will be a big help, to become Elite you will need the maximum firepower and defences on your ship. Occasionally they are available on ships on sale in the shipyard, otherwise they need to be acquired, MSE can be purchased at Tech level 13 or higher, the NEU is awarded on completion of the Thargoid Plans mission and is not available in the equipment list for purchase.

Cmdr Wyvern is quite right about the size and manouverability and speed of your ship as well, and an excellent tactic to use, (try the Spyhunter mission and you'll find out how difficult an opponent can be).

You should also look at how many energy banks your ship has, the Supercobra for example has seven.

Another ploy is to sunskim for fuel after hyperspacing, (particularly on longhops) fly back to the witchpoint and then continue your journey through the shipping lanes, this will enable you to use fuel injectors to cut and run to preserve your shields and then if you feel minded do a reciprocal and take on the baddies again!

Good hunting.

[GoreLeech]

Lol....dunno what the problem is with the mil lasers....i mean even in my Pcc (although it does extra unit, and shield enhancement) it takes a fair beating, but the lasers dont overheat enough to make it much off a difference.....course half the time i just ram the small ships, and pull one of my tricks for the big one's. With pirates since they engage first, its real easy to simply get a good bead on them when they finally level out of trying to doge you, and just blow em away, or scare em off......with neutral convoys, just sneak right up on a ships tail(like 10-5 meteres off its port) and just unload.....with the speed and power of the laser, itll be blown away before it can be overheated....pull the same stunt on the boa or python after gunning down all other little gnat-like ships

[ArkanoiD]

If you don't in Oolite, your not really ready for combat. I think a shield booters and extra energy unit ECM and a good front and rear lasers are the minium. One of the thinks I realy like about Oolite, is that it is more "realistic" than classic Elite. In Elite allthough you could buy all the extra stuff NPCs always had a pulse laser and it was rare for them to have an ECM. In Oolite every item of equipment is available to NPCs and if you install OXPs, sure you can buy the ship but so can pirates!

I got blown up a lot when I started (as I play with all the OXPs in). I traded in for Murgh's rusty python and just traded with my 100 hold a lot in a lightly armed Python between Mega Safe systems, injectoring away if there was any trouble, relying on by Shield Boosters to take the worst of it. At 100 tonns a run, I soon had enough cash to buy and kit out a PCC and started hitting the anarchies with an empty hold and a fuel scoop!

While waiting for Deathburger to be finished, i tried if it is possible to get reasonable amount of credits for ship upgrades *without* trading the MkIII for a cheaper or rusty ship at the beginning if you have all the OXPs installled. Definitely it is, but you have to avoid space lanes except high TL safe (democracy or corprorate state) systems with lots of police. In-system trading with Casino helps to make some fast money, but this may seem "unfair". Boyracers are dangerous, not just annoying, and encounter with Veelviloid (sp?) may be instant death. The first thing you need is fuel injectors - it can be used instead of ECM but not vice versa.

Well, i played without intermediate game saves to be more realistic, so fuel scoops are less valuable as it is more important to be alive rather than rich.. and sunskimming is no longer safe with sunskimmers.oxp who tend to attack you en route.

Another though dangerous way to a fistful of credits is to find a fugitive attaked by police and try to make a final shot - surely after his missiles are exhausted. Still dangerous - the police may just say "thank you for the assistance" and switch to another target, leaving you with the "problem"

[Svenson]

From cold, a Mil laser should just about kill your average python pirate if every shot is on target. Hope that gives you a feel for the potency.

I tend to hit a couple of smaller ones at as long a range as I can, and when the laser overheats, inject through their attack and either hit them with the rear as a go by, or loop over and get on their tail until the front Mil has cooled enough to go back to pirate education!

Rafe Svenson

[Timm74]

Hi.

mhh. I also noted the Mil laser is a lot less powerful than with the original Elite. I remember something like 5 shots on a Thargoid mothership in the C64 and PC version, and it was gone. Now you can at least pump a full laser into it.

And it overheats at roughly the same rate as the much more powerful original one, making it even less the powerful weapon I remember.

It says quite a lot that some people recommend a beam laser instead...

Any other solutions? Are there "real military laser"-OXPs?

Cheers!
Timm

[ChiliTheKid]

I seem to remember reading somewhere on the forum that the lasers couldn't be changed - or at least not simply.

I felt the same as you when I first upgraded to a military laser, but having thought about it I think the balance is actually very good - you definitely get the extra bang, but at a cost - so it rewards accuracy and makes you work harder to manage your heating (much like Tie Fighter used to make you manage your energy).

Also, it makes dogfights that much more tricky, and think how bored you would get if you could blast everyone out of the sky from 20 miles away with two shots!

And lastly, if you make military lasers more powerful, the same lasers will be available to NPC's...so any uber-laser you have will be fired back at you!

Having met some bad-ass pirates already, I'm not sure I'd want that...

CTK

[Captain Hesperus]

ChiliTheKid has hit the nail right on the head. In Oolite, almost all of the equipment available to the player (excepting certain Cloaking Devices and OXP mission equipment) is available to NPCs, so you may encounter a ship equipped with an Extra Energy Unit or even a Military Energy Unit, thus making it harder to kill them quickly. If you were to change the keys in the equipment plists that would make these units unavailable to NPCs, then you would notice a quicker kill. As it is I see it as a challenge, the computer is limited by the behaviours allowed by the AI, so why cripple it more? This is why I installed the missiles and bombs OXP and still fly around with vanilla Hardheads. I have yet to be Q-missiled........
<touches wood>

Captain Hesperus

[Commander McLane]

I also noted the Mil laser is a lot less powerful than with the original Elite. I remember something like 5 shots on a Thargoid mothership in the C64 and PC version, and it was gone.

My memory seems to disagree. As far as I recall in both versions I played (C64 and Atari) it took almost a full salvo of a military laser to take out a Thargoid. Which is exactly the same as in Oolite.

In both versions, however, a distant target was easier to hit, as it was replaced by a dot that was - at least in the case of the smaller ships - bigger than the ship itself, and also better visible. In Oolite you have to aim more carefully at distant targets in order to hit them properly. Perhaps this gives the impression that the military laser doesn't work as good as in old Elite.

Note also another difference between the lasers: In Oolite the different lasers have a different firing range. I don't know whether this is true for any old Elite version. But in Oolite it is. So you can hit targets with your military laser, which are out of reach for a pulse or beam laser. For me this is the advantage that really counts, because I like to kill my enemies before they are in their firing range. And as most NPCs are fitted with pulse or beam lasers, only a military laser can assure that.

[ChiliTheKid]

It's worth pointing out though that it would be ace to be able to select from a larger pool of lasers with varying properties...many other previous space sims (I hesitate to make any connection to Oolite for fear of casting aspersions...) allow you this variety...

Personally, I have read through the forums and often I feel there is a gap in expectations when playing the big O. Those of you who grew up on Elite (C64, CPC, Speccy and BBC) love Oolite for the same simplicity (perhaps subtlelty) of Elite but with the updating of the visuals to 21stC and the extra dimensions OXP's provide, whilst maintaining the original balance.

Those of us who grew up on X-Wing, TF, Wing Commander etc. initially want to go kill-crazy with missions, and the lack of structure can be a bit of a turn-off, but you either love the game or you don't and to be honest bezzing around a practically infinite space causing all types of mayhem is a scream, IMHO.

Then there seems to be a third type, those who cut their teeth on Farspace, Freelancer, etc. All great games, to be sure, but Oolite is...different. And whilst these games aren't exactly 'twitch' they present the player with a different type of game, thus a different expectation of what Oolite is or could be.

So; expectations. Each of us have our own but I would be so bold as to add something of an Oolite Instruction manual for beginners in addition to the splendid 'first flight' guides on Aegidian's website and the original 'Dark Wheel'. I spent the first two days of play dickin' about until I got the point of it, then gave it the benefit of the doubt, then fell in love. Would hate to lose other devotees in the absence of a 31st century manual for the uninitiated! I can, however, see the attritional nature of those first 2 days keeps the 'twitchers' out, but isn't Gnu supposed to be inclusive? Get one of the 'twitchers' to write an OXP....

So, if it's OK with you guys, I'd like to propose writing a kind of instruction manual for 'them there' that are new to E/oolite, but being clear on what it is, what can/can't be done with OXP's and if you want a kill-crazy thrash thru the ooniverse with a bewildering array of ever more inexplicable weaponry whenever you have a spare 17 seconds in your life then oolite ain't that. As a relative noob to Oolite but just able to remember playing C64/Amiga version of elite hopefully I can strike that balance with the old and new.

Also, since I'm enjoying this huge labour of love you lot and others have put in for virtually free, I'd like to add something. And since I couldn't program a toaster, this would be my little bit - the only OXP I'll ever write is PC-Crash.oxp.

Sound sensible? Well tough, 'cos I'm already writing it.

[Captain Hesperus]

So; expectations. Each of us have our own but I would be so bold as to add something of an Oolite Instruction manual for beginners in addition to the splendid 'first flight' guides on Aegidian's website and the original 'Dark Wheel'. I spent the first two days of play dickin' about until I got the point of it, then gave it the benefit of the doubt, then fell in love. Would hate to lose other devotees in the absence of a 31st century manual for the uninitiated! I can, however, see the attritional nature of those first 2 days keeps the 'twitchers' out, but isn't Gnu supposed to be inclusive? Get one of the 'twitchers' to write an OXP....

There is an Instruction Manual which includes a pilot's reference manual on the Wiki. As for Twitchers, have you *ever* flown a Benulobiweed Inc. ship? An interesting/humourous/retro-love OXP is Selezen's seosu.oxp which unleashes hordes of Capisastra ships into Galaxy 4 for the player to 'play with'. Odd that this was never Wiki-fied....

So, if it's OK with you guys, I'd like to propose writing a kind of instruction manual for 'them there' that are new to E/oolite, but being clear on what it is, what can/can't be done with OXP's and if you want a kill-crazy thrash thru the ooniverse with a bewildering array of ever more inexplicable weaponry whenever you have a spare 17 seconds in your life then oolite ain't that. As a relative noob to Oolite but just able to remember playing C64/Amiga version of elite hopefully I can strike that balance with the old and new.

Can't wait to see it....

Sound sensible? Well tough, 'cos I'm already writing it.

You've hit on my OXPing-blindness problem too, I see.

Captain Hesperus

[Commander McLane]

I also would like to point you to the existing Instruction Manual in the EliteWiki. Is it very different from what you would expect for new players? In this case feel indeed free to contribute something.

Depending on what you have in mind I would probably suggest you amend the existing manual. The basic beginners' information is already fairly spread. I wouldn't think it to be a good idea to further atomize it.

Generally, of course, and as one of the first-generation gamers who are so happy to have Elite back, I have to point out that Oolite is nothing more (and nothing less!) than an adaption of Elite for the 21st century. And it should be appreciated exactly for what it is: the possibilty to re-experience (or first time experience) the most revolutionary, innovative, and last-but-not-least breath-taking game of all times! It is not a graphically pumped-up first person shooter, it is not a round-based space-sim, it is not a real-time space-sim, it is not a proper flight simulator, it is not a couple of other things. So anybody who is looking for one of those should indeed look somewhere else.