Emancipate the slaves?

[Cmdr James]

How about, when docked, an option to free any slaves you have instead of selling them. You get no money, but, well, you get to feel better about yourself

[Phrostbyte]

Why, then, do you even have slaves aboard in the first place?

I was pondering an idea on the way home the other night. Maybe Democracy systems could have some sort of Liberation Stations. You could dock there and offload your slaves, either for free or for very high prices (the Liberation Stations wanting to encourage the liberation of slaves by providing the best prices). Possibly, you could have a "Slaves Liberated" rating, which, like War Bonds, allow you certain perks as you free more and more slaves.

Sometimes, I dock with Penal Astro Factories and buy up their entire inventory slaves as a "favor" for the slaves, and then sell them at a nice quiet agricultural world somewhere they can have a slightly better life.

[Cmdr James]

It is, or at least used to be possible to scoop pods which have no reward, and no bounty. Also, I sometimes get slaves as commodities in canisters I scoop.

Firearms, narcotics etc can be dumped in space if your moral code (or lack of understanding of oolite legal system ) means you dont want to carry them. It doesnt seem fair to dump slaves in space.

One problem with freeing slaves, is that there is no really obvious interface that would allow you to do it.

[Disembodied]

I've thought about an idea like this too (but lacked the coding skills necessary to do anything with it). I originally thought that a separate Amnesty Station could be put inside the main station aegis in Democracy and Confederacy worlds, where slaves could be "sold" for a nominal fixed fee (1Cr or 0.1Cr or something like that), in order to clear Gal Co-op bureaucracy, after which the slaves could be repatriated. This could possibly generating other feel-good missions where players could ship the liberated slaves back to their homeworlds in return for a warm, fuzzy feeling inside.

Then I thought -- and I don't know if this is possible -- that it would be easier if maybe players could sign up as agents of Amnesty (or another organisation, if using a real-world name is deemed unsuitable, although I doubt they'd object). Then, on docking with a station (maybe only in a Democracy or Confederacy system?), any slaves in the cargo hold would be automatically detected and liberated into the arms of a local Amnesty agent. This would have to happen after any scooped escape pods are cashed in for insurance or bounty, though, as these show up as "slaves" in the manifest.

The game can detect if you leave a main station carrying slaves: if you do, you get bad no-nos on your criminal record. So -- in my head -- it should be possible to detect if players dock with slaves in the cargo hold.

The advantage of using the main station as a liberation point for slaves is that it doesn't clutter the game up with more objects, and players won't have to make extra docking runs. It would be irritating to arrive with a bunch of slaves you want to liberate, and dock with the main station first by mistake: you'd then have to either sell the slaves there, or launch from the station with them in your cargo hold, pick up a load of offender points for doing so, then re-dock in an Amnesty station and set them free. Noble, true, but bloody annoying...

Either way, I think overall it's a good idea. Both versions could also generate fuzzy taking-the-freed-slaves-home missions (perhaps in the teeth of opposition from prowling slavers). But if the liberation option could be kept within the main system station, I think that would be best.

[matt634]

I like the idea of "emancipation stations" in the aegis. So long as they're not gigantic I welcome a little "clutter" around stations. I especially like Hoopy's . [fights compulsive urge to log off and make a wager... okay, I'm good] I would limit them to democratic systems, however. This may be a cultural difference, but confederacies, slaves, and amnesty don't really go together; at least not on this side of the pond.

[Captain Hesperus]

Here's my 0.2Cr. Amnesty Ooniversal has, for a long time, been campaigning for the total ban on sale, export and purchase of slaves across the regions of space under GalCop control. This has, thus far, been unsuccessful as many systems' governments will heartily cheer these incentives on, while quietly managing the sale of slaves through intermediaries. However, Amnesty in conjunction with a strong Liberal faction within the GalCop administration, have set-up 'Beacon Stations'. These relatively small reconditioned relay stations were set up across the Eight Charts and offered a service to traders who either bought or scooped slaves, whereby they could trade the slaves for a nominal 10Cr per 'tonne'. In exchange, they would gain an additional benefit of having any 'Offender' status reduced, due to the GalCop Liberals' adjusting the commander's legal status for their good deed. Additionally, commanders of good repute with Amnesty are offered lucrative transport contracts to deliver slaves back to their worlds of origin.

Although the relay stations are still rare in the Galaxies, they are spreading fast and as they do, so too does the hope that one day the Galaxies will be freed of the bane of slavery.

Captain Hesperus
.....never bought a slave. Firearms, yeah. Narcotics, of course, but never slaves.

[Disembodied]

I like the idea of "emancipation stations" in the aegis. So long as they're not gigantic I welcome a little "clutter" around stations. I especially like Hoopy's . [fights compulsive urge to log off and make a wager... okay, I'm good] I would limit them to democratic systems, however. This may be a cultural difference, but confederacies, slaves, and amnesty don't really go together; at least not on this side of the pond.

We-ell... I suppose. The aegis is a pretty big place, after all. They could even be shaped like giant cargo pods -- visitors would be reminded, each time they dock, of the unpleasant realities of the slave trade.

As for the Confederacies: I think you're being a bit harsh! OK, the Confederate States of the American Civil War are not a great recommendation, but they're not the only kind of Confederacy possible. The Oolite Confederacies are pretty sorted systems, surely? You can't just go by a name -- or we'd have to consider the Democratic Republic of North Korea...

@ Hesperus: I think a 10Cr/ton bounty is probably too high: I'd say 1Cr tops, myself. You'd be running the risk of making slave-running (albeit to a Beacon Station) financially profitable. The Beacon Stations could be good places to sell food and textiles, though, to feed and clothe the refugees.

As for the contracts shipping freed slaves home: should these be lucrative? Or should the rewards on offer be more intangible? Lowering ones criminal record has to be worth a fair deal, not to mention the warm fuzzy feeling...

EDIT: re. the Confederacy issue: what about putting the Beacon Stations in all Democracies, but only Industrial Confederacies? The Agricultural Confederacies want the cheap labour and aren't prepared to support an anti-slavery movement. It would add a potential source of political tension for future developments...

[Captain Hesperus]

We-ell... I suppose. The aegis is a pretty big place, after all. They could even be shaped like giant cargo pods -- visitors would be reminded, each time they dock, of the unpleasant realities of the slave trade.

That would make the construction easy, just open the file for the cargo pod in Wings3D, enlarge by 1000%, add a docking slot, save, texture et voila

@ Hesperus: I think a 10Cr/ton bounty is probably too high: I'd say 1Cr tops, myself. You'd be running the risk of making slave-running (albeit to a Beacon Station) financially profitable. The Beacon Stations could be good places to sell food and textiles, though, to feed and clothe the refugees.

Fair enough, how about a tonne for tonne trade with some other commodity, machinery or computers?

As for the contracts shipping freed slaves home: should these be lucrative? Or should the rewards on offer be more intangible? Lowering ones criminal record has to be worth a fair deal, not to mention the warm fuzzy feeling...

Well, if Amnesty *was* being backed by Liberals within GalCop they might be able to get funding to cover the 'shipping expenses'. The lowering of legal status would off-set any incrementing due to leaving dock with slaves and the contract offers would intice commanders to 'keep doing the right thing' as opposed to 'Pah! I risked my Iron Ass to deliver these liberated slaves here and all I get are your lousy thanks? Next time I'll consider dropping them off at the closest Agri-Confed. Might not be morally-right, but at least it's worth the effort."

Also, if you wish, you could PM Commander Maegil. He started a similar OXP yonks back, based around his 'Spartacus Brotherhood', a 'fleet' of liberated slaves taking their revenge on slavers and anyone who does business with them.

Captain Hesperus

[Disembodied]

Well, if Amnesty *was* being backed by Liberals within GalCop they might be able to get funding to cover the 'shipping expenses'. The lowering of legal status would off-set any incrementing due to leaving dock with slaves and the contract offers would intice commanders to 'keep doing the right thing' as opposed to 'Pah! I risked my Iron Ass to deliver these liberated slaves here and all I get are your lousy thanks? Next time I'll consider dropping them off at the closest Agri-Confed. Might not be morally-right, but at least it's worth the effort."

Yeah... but I still think, from a game-play point of view, it should cost the player something. The only reason they should be liberating slaves is because it's the right thing to do. If it's economically more profitable to liberate the slaves than it is to sell them in the open market, then where's the buzz of self-worth going to come from? Virtue should be its own reward, I think -- otherwise we're just making a win-win situation. In game-terms, I always feel it's best to make people weigh the pros and cons: I can feel good about myself, but it'll cost me money; or I can add to the bank balance, but tacitly endorse a morally repugnant business.

Ultimately, I suppose, it's about the good guys always being the underdogs: Robin Hood, or William Tell, or that bloke in The Flashing Blade, or Luke Skywalker... it's more fun.

(OK, in the real world, I'd much rather the good guys weren't the underdogs quite so often -- but in fiction, it's practically a necessity!)

[matt634]

Excellent ideas all around. I was being a bit harsh on Oolite's confederacies (just throwing in a Yanks perspective) but I like the agri v industrial confed discrepancies.

This could finally allow for lucrative slave trading with Amnesty driving the prices up. As it is now slaves (especially for the legal cost associated) aren't worth dealing in. They don't currently have the wild price fluctuations like narcotics and firearms. Now perhaps one could agree to transport them from Amnesty to their home (which would cost the commander nothing) and then sell them off to struggling agri-confeds for boatloads of credits. This would of course be extremely dangerous as both Amnesty and Galcop would discourage such practices with extreme prejudice. [bridges fingers together and sneers an evil smile].

I can't believe "emancipation station" didn't take off

[Disembodied]

You can make money on slaves, and legally too... just make your bid on the "shoplifters and deadbeats" on sale in the various convenience stores that come as part of the Your Ad Here OXP. They're going cheap (and not just the various avians...). Not that I ever have: like Captain Hesperus, I have never, ever bought a slave to sell. It might just be a number in a game, but it's beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned!

Slavery will always be a part of the ooniverse -- it's in with the bricks, so to speak. But that doesn't mean we can't have a group (or groups -- the Spartacus Brotherhood being the more militant wing) trying to stamp out the trade. But in my opinion, in terms of the game story, these groups should ideally be impoverished (and, in the case of the Brotherhood, probably at least semi-illegal).

I'd really lilke to see this become a fully-fledged OXP. I don't have the skills necessary to code it up, but if any of our more 133t members want to take it on I'd be happy to chip in any way I can.

PS: "Emancipation Station" would be a good nickname, I think, for one of these stops on what could be, in certain systems anyway, an analogue of the US antebellum "underground railroad". If there were lobsters involved it could be a Crustacean Emancipation Station!

[jonnycuba]

I'd most definitely use this option!

[Commander McLane]

As far as the question "What are Confederacies?" is concerned, it might be helpful not to resort to any historical or existing states on earth that bear the attribute "confederate" in their names, but to consult the Elite-Wiki instead.

Democratic Worlds
The form of government in which each citizen has a say, Democracy is the next most stable of the eight categories recognised by GalCop. Many democracies arose from other forms of government, and spread across their planets until there was a council of elected officials that decided the policies and economic landscape for the entire planet. Life in a democracy is often better than that of the corporate state, since (in theory) every citizen has a chance to become a member of their government and even the premier statesman of their world. Elections are held regularly on democratic worlds and the means is dependent on the level of technology available. Less advanced worlds may use the traditional 'ballot box' method, each citizen ticking a box on a ballot paper signifying their favoured candidate, while the most advanced use hyper-net terminals from the comfort of their own lounges. Invariably, for so important a role as planetary leader, election campaigns take on the scale of military campaign and entertainment extravaganza combined, each party promoting their nominee through rhetoric, political 'spin', endorsement by movie stars, and if the polls are against them, mud-slinging at the opposition.

Confederate Worlds
A Confederacy differs from a Democracy in that although each region of the world has its own government, they are all essentially the same and follow the lead set by a centralised seat of officials.

So, as far as Oolite is concerned, Confederacies are Democracies, with the only difference being that they don't have planetary unified Governments, but closely co-operating regional democratic governments with some kind of a planet-wide super-government.

[matt634]

it might be helpful not to resort to any historical or existing states on earth that bear the attribute "confederate" in their names

It would indeed... however, that's unrealistic. Human nature is to fill in the blanks with known information (historical or existing). It obviously applies when we think about Communist systems - quite SOVIET aren't they? For me, and this could entirely be an American perspective, confederacies - admittedly a form of democracy even on earth - don't equate well with the emancipation of slaves.

[Cmdr James]

Democracies can quite easily have slavery, and in reality I think some have.

It doesnt really matter what we think Confederacy means, the legal systems are the same on all worlds (possibly not Anarchies?) and are enforced by GalCorp arent they?

Anywhere that slaves are illegal, you could reasonably have a place to free them. You could argue that richer areas would give more to charity to support such organisations. You could also argue that more socialist/communist systems are more into the "equality of man" and would see this as more important than capitalist areas. Alternatively, you could see it as a high tech level thing, as in more advanced systems have moved more from their barbaric roots. There is no clear right way to go.

This is certainly OXP material, not core oolite, so I guess whoever cuts the code gets to decide what the deal is

I dont think you should be paid, that just introduces a secondary slave market. If anything you should "make a contribution" to the outfit taking them in. This is meant to be a goodwill thing. It could always be that a very few of the slaves are sometimes rich, and wish to thank you And the possiblities for missions are endless. Get a contract to kill the guy who enslaved me, destroy the fleet sent to intercept some escaped slaves, and escort them to a release centre....

Perhaps it should count against your legal rating though, acts of goodwill can mitigate your past indiscretions?

I would also like to see different things illegal in different systems, (like the furs are illegal oxp, but different in different systems), but thats another issue completely