OXPs - Strategic thinking!

[Cholmondely]

And, why do you assume that everything is crumbling? What gives you this jaundiced view of life in the Galactic Co-operative?

Top page of https://oolite.space/:

Among the seven trillion people who are - at least officially - Cooperative citizens, you are nobody. So far, anyway. You've got a ship, some weapons, and enough spare cash to get started - and one day, you might get the fame, wealth or glory you want. Perhaps one day, everyone might know your name. If, that is, you can survive that long.

The two thousand star systems of the Cooperative once enjoyed a golden age of peace and prosperity, and perhaps the wealthiest of them can still pretend to. The trade ships that once safely travelled between planets now have to be well armed and escorted to fend off pirate attacks, from small-time criminals desperate for their next meal, to powerful robber barons extracting tithes from everyone who passes through their space.

The Cooperative's police force, concentrated near a few influential planets, can no longer maintain order. The mercenaries they hire for a few credits a kill are too few, too unreliable to do so either. And in the darkness between the stars, an old enemy lurks, fearless, perhaps waiting for order to collapse entirely.

Good luck, Commander.



I understand that Disembodied wrote it. I read it before first downloading v.1.88 back in 2019. And again in 2020 as I started playing.

[Wildeblood]

I understand that Disembodied wrote it. I read it before first downloading v.1.88 back in 2019. And again in 2020 as I started playing.

Is there anything actually in-game to support the assertion that it's an empire in decline? Maybe pirates haven't appeared, as the rot sets in, maybe pirates have always been, since the earliest days. Maybe we're still on the upswing, and pirates are fewer, and farther between, with every passing year?

In any case, you've illustrated that we can consider two related processes here: a random walk around a trend, and the gradient of the trend itself. I am only interested in the first, which should be simple to actually implement, but you seem only interested in the more difficult task.

Good day, sir!

[Cholmondely]

I understand that Disembodied wrote it. I read it before first downloading v.1.88 back in 2019. And again in 2020 as I started playing.

Is there anything actually in-game to support the assertion that it's an empire in decline? Maybe pirates haven't appeared, as the rot sets in, maybe pirates have always been, since the earliest days. Maybe we're still on the upswing, and pirates are fewer, and farther between, with every passing year?

In any case, you've illustrated that we can consider two related processes here: a random walk around a trend, and the gradient of the trend itself. I am only interested in the first, which should be simple to actually implement, but you seem only interested in the more difficult task.

Good day, sir!

I'm unaware of anything in the game itself which supports Disembodied's Lore (but do note the general feeling that the game is tough and that that is at it should be). I understand that our other lore generally supports the text on our website (cim's history, Selezen's history etc.).

But I would not expect a game based on Classic Elite (26,138 bytes) to introduce this when it was not in the original.

As regards this major conceptual difference between the two of us, don't be misled. I'm happy for whatever I can get. An oxp along your lines is a darn sight better than the nothing which I understand we have at the moment (unless eg. Xeptatl's Sword does something in this regard). And what is out there can always be improved later.

[Cholmondely]

I've been refreshing the ToughGuys wiki page. It seems that Smivs tried something vaguely similar (GalCop collapse) - this text is from a Dec 2011 version of the page:


This OXP affects the level of equipment fitted to NPC ships. It can be used in two ways.

1) As an experienced Commander, you might feel that the 'enemy' are getting too easy to deal with, so you can use this OXP to re-balance the game, giving you tougher adversaries more suited to your combat skills. The first level (ToughGuys:Anarchy) would be suitable for this. The enemy will have a range of weapons upgrades and extra equipment, giving you a wide variety of abilities to deal with. Some enemies will still be quite weak while others will be noticably stronger than in standard Oolite. While making life much harder, an experienced Commander shouldn't find themselves overwhelmed. Only ships with the role 'Pirate' are effected, so Police ships and Traders will remain un-changed. A brave Commander might consider installing level 2 as the default. Level three would not normally be suitable for regular use, except by the Bravest of the Brave.

2) Using your imagination and degree of immersion in the game this OXP will also allow you to witness and participate in a descent into total lawlessness across the Ooniverse where Pirates and Criminals are in the ascendancy and GalCop forces are overwhelmed. There are no specific missions and it's entirely up to you and your imagination to flesh-out the scenarios. This OXP will give you the environment you need to do this. This fall towards Armageddon occurs in three phases, and you can work through this as you see fit, quickly if you want to, or perhaps over many weeks or even months. When you think it's time for things to get worse remove the current level from your AddOns folder and install the next level. Of course if you want the situation to improve, you can re-install a lesser level at any time.

A possible time-line might look like this-

ToughGuys:Anarchy - Law and Order is collapsing across the Eight Galaxies. Criminals and Pirate Gangs are growing stronger and more bold, and the threat to innocent citizens is causing great concern. The spacelanes are becoming very dangerous places, but you should still be safe in an Iron-Ass ship with a good Commander at the helm.

ToughGuys:Apocalypse - As time passes, the situation becomes critical. Civilian and Merchant shipping is becoming ever more heavily armed to deal with the criminal insurgency. With the Navy fully occupied dealing with the Thargoid threat GalCop forces are out-gunned and struggling to contain the menace. The Pirate marauders continue to re-arm and strengthen, adding bigger stronger ships to their fleets, while the civilian population cowers. Open warfare is commonplace throughout the spacelanes.

ToughGuys:Armageddon - Out-gunned and out-numbered, GalCop forces can no longer maintain Law and Order, and the Pirate Alliances become the dominant force in the Ooniverse, their heavily-armed ships destroying all in their path. Anarchy rules the spaceways and no ship is left to pass in peace. In a last-ditch attempt to restore Order, GalCop takes the expensive step of up-grading the weaponry on it's vast fleets of Vipers, and learning that the Navy is about to take delivery of several hundred of their much-delayed new super-fighter the Constrictor, GalCop controversially requisitions these and adds them to their Police Fleet. In a bid to gain total supremacy, the Pirate Alliance forces begin to blockade the industrial worlds across the Eight Galaxies in a bid to cripple trade and force GalCop into capitulating. Even with their new-found fire-power, the GalCop forces struggle to make any impact. And yet against all the odds, a few brave souls, known only as 'The Commanders' still fight back. These pilots are the finest warriors the Ooniverse has, and they will not concede defeat. They continue the fight to rid the spacelanes of danger in the full knowledge that the odds are against them, their cause is hopeless, and their death lies but a Jump away.

[TheCiscoKid]

My first thought, if we're making the universe more dynamic; should a system's economy and/or government change due to events? Or should events just serve to showcase the immutable characteristics of a system: i.e. invading Thargons are always thwarted, GalCop Police are never able to purge pirate presence in anarchy systems, etc...

If a system was going to change economy/government, that should ideally be the result of multiple cascading events building towards the larger shift, so in either case I think coming up with those events themselves is a logical starting point.

Can't say I'm drawn to the idea of a universe in collapse; I like the game's random ups-and-downs averaging out to a neutral backdrop against the player's own progress. To each their own, of course, and I can see that idea being expanded into a set of associated missions and mechanics, but I'd rather that not be baked into a broader 'dynamic war/factions' expansion.

[Cholmondely]

My first thought, if we're making the universe more dynamic; should a system's economy and/or government change due to events? Or should events just serve to showcase the immutable characteristics of a system: i.e. invading Thargons are always thwarted, GalCop Police are never able to purge pirate presence in anarchy systems, etc...

If a system was going to change economy/government, that should ideally be the result of multiple cascading events building towards the larger shift, so in either case I think coming up with those events themselves is a logical starting point.

Can't say I'm drawn to the idea of a universe in collapse; I like the game's random ups-and-downs averaging out to a neutral backdrop against the player's own progress. To each their own, of course, and I can see that idea being expanded into a set of associated missions and mechanics, but I'd rather that not be baked into a broader 'dynamic war/factions' expansion.

Whatever the case, it will be OXP'd. So unwanted scenarios will not be downloaded by those who don't want them.

Wildeblood's Dynooverse OXP allows you to set whether you want Boom, Bloom, Wibble, Gloom or Doom.

The advantage of Doom, of course, is that things get tougher the more you play and build up your ship.

[Wildeblood]

Wildeblood's Dynooverse OXP allows you to set whether you want Boom, Bloom, Wibble, Gloom or Doom.

The advantage of Doom, of course, is that things get tougher the more you play and build up your ship.

I really don't recall including "Wibble". The advantage of Boom or Bloom, of course, is that billions of Galcopian citizens don't die unnecessarily.

[Cholmondely]

Just coming back to this one.

We've a number of OXPs which add depth to the Ooniverse.

The systems OXPs (anarchies etc.), the Navies, Pirate Coves, etc.

Each of these add in stations and ships and add more "colour" to the variety already inherent in the vanilla game.



But.



While the lore adds in actors (Comoonin for example), they don't do anything. And some of our actors are missing (such as the Corporate States who have vast wealth, or Pirate gang bosses who are working to undermine the police/GalCop so that they can secure their territory).

Some of our missions add in more - especially regarding the Thargoids (Cataclysm? Xeptatl's Sword).

But essentially, our OXPs just add in more ships which pootle around and do little other than destroy trade (somewhat like what is going on in the Strait of Hormuz at the moment).

Much of what we have seems haphazard. Think of the sentinel stations in anarchies. What effect do they really have on the space route? And what effect do they really have if they are then suborned by pirates?

People react to changes in circumstances. I'd expect many more ships to take the back-routes to the main orbital station in anarchies so as to evade the pirates. And for the pirates to come up with some way to meet this change.



Could we do more?

We have many tools which could be used to allow more sophistication (I'm thinking particularly of  Diplomancy &  Thargoidifier here).

I feel that we should more OXPs which introduce real change along the lines of Wildeblood's Dynooverse, but in a systematic fashion, fitting in with what we would expect from the actors at hand.

I'd like to see pirates taking over systems in a meaningful fashion. I'd like to see Communist navies invading the divided Dictatorships (Juntas vs Imperials). Systems being Thargoidificated. And new routes springing up using the stars which GalCop kept off our F6 charts!

This could be done on an OXP by OXP basis. Starting with Commies, for example, and adding in a functioning Comoonin which is subverting other systems on the one hand, and then sending in the troops on the other!



Another point. I can see fighting going on in the distance (I don't have  DarkRay installed). I can see explosions. Surely the police, the pirates and the merchants could see all this too - especially in the big merchant ships with large crews. And they would react accordingly.

[Wildeblood]

We have many tools which could be used to allow more sophistication (I'm thinking particularly of  Diplomancy &  Thargoidifier here).

A bizarre co-incidence: I was just thinking today, that I really should get back and finish that little trinket. That's actually the reason I'm here, reading, this afternoon. I came to post a message asking for advice regarding that, immediately got distracted reading other topics, and forgot why I was here.

To the topic at hand... the opacity of the system population system that populates systems milliseconds after systems have been created by the system creation system acting on information stored in the system information system (hereinafter "SysInfo"), but which itself does not act on information stored in SysInfo, but rather "does its own thing (man)", was the stumbling block for me.

At my suggestion, forum user "pleb" created a demonstration of an alternative system of system population acting on information that was, in fact, stored in SysInfo, which although not technically superior to the now established system, was in my view, less opaque and more amenable to modification by laypersons like me to whom the attraction of javascript remains a mystery. But, that alternative timeline was lost, what, 12 or 13 years ago? We are where we are.

Quenda, Quokka, Quoll.

I've looked into the system populator scripts twice or thrice, shaken my head, and resolved not to even attempt anything. Curiosity has its limits, man. I feel certain I'm not alone in that experience.