Joysticks

[iamthelowercase]

I know how to do the generic joystick calibration in Windows 10. If I were in front of a Windows computer, I could create a guide. But I don't remember the process well enough to describe it without a reference.

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Someone asked about joystick configurations earlier in the thread. So here's mine.

First, I have two unrelated second-hand joysticks that just use the generic drivers. Oolite cheerfully recognizes them as separate devices under Debian Linux, and Elite: Dangerous recognizes them as separate devices under Windows.

Joystick #1 is a Saitek ST290 Pro. A web search found plenty of pictures of one in the right-hand configuration (including the one in the top of the original manual), but mine is in the left-hand configuration, which is a big part of why I got it. It has three axies, a throttle, six buttons including the trigger, and a four-way hat switch. lsusb identifies it as 06a3:0460 Saitek PLC ST290 Pro Flight Stick.

Joystick #2 is late-model Microsoft Sidewinder. I started out with the SideWinder Precision 2 (here's the picture at wikipedia), but the one that's on my desk right now is the SideWinder Force Feedback 2, which is identical apart from the chunkier force feedback base. It has three axies, a throttle, eight buttons including the trigger and four on the base, and a four-way hat switch. lsusb identifies it as 045e:001b Microsoft Corp. SideWinder Force Feedback 2 Joystick

The combination is a pretty decent HOSAS setup that I got at second-hand shop prices.

Stick #1 has throttle on the forward-back axis (which gives me 50% throttle without touching the stick) and yaw on the twist axis. The trigger fires missiles. Button 2 (in the center under the thumb) disarms missiles, and button 4 (to the right of button 2) triggers the ident system and can arm missiles as a side-effect. Button 3 (to the left of button 2) sends docking requests. Button 5 (above button 3, left of the hat switch) cycles through missiles, and button 6 (above button 4, right of the hat switch) toggles the weapon systems on and off. On the hat switch (above button 2), up and down control the scanner zoom, left controls the torus drive, and right controls the witchspace drive.

Stick #2 has pitch and roll on the obvious axies. The hat switch controls the viewport direction (and is how I internalized that "port" is "ship's left"). On the handle, the trigger fires the laser, button 2 (big centered on the handle) fires the ECM system, button 3 (left round button) engages fuel injectors, and button 4 (right round button) cycles through compass targets. On the base, button 6 (12 o'clock position) cycles through prime-able equipment, button 5 (3 o'clock position) cycles through functions of primeable equipment, and button 8 (6 o'clock position) activates the primeable equipment. Button 7 (9 o'clock position) would launch the escape pod if I had one equipped.

[Cholmondely]

Someone asked about joystick configurations earlier in the thread. So here's mine.

Thank you!

I have a Thrustmaster TM4. Not enough buttons (as I find the keyboard anti-immersive), and it soon developed a drunken bias to steer to the right, but the feel of it! Nice and smooth and chunky (but light plastic rather than something more solid). I still really like the feel of it.

Finding the missile buttons quite confusing I eventually ended up using the Elgato button box where I could mark them off in pink with helpful labels and used them a bit. But I rarely use missiles (the cost at the outset, and my continual starting of new Jamesons to try out new OXPs). I nabbed the icons from Captain Beatnik's older HUDs. I use the direction buttons for precise aiming, and the Flight/Docked buttons toggle the button box buttons to the relevant layouts (as on the linked wiki page).






So why HOSAS? I was seduced by the feel of the Thrustmaster throttle and never thought of trying out a second joystick. What does HOSAS give you that a throttle doesn't?

[RockDoctor]

it soon developed a drunken bias to steer to the right,

Worn potentiometer? Should be replaceable - but watch out for log- versus linear- tracks.
Alternatively a dry joint, sporadically giving a change in resistance on the circuit.

Ah, the joys of sensor troubleshooting. It never leaves you. Though it has been a while since I woke up screaming.

[iamthelowercase]

So why HOSAS? I was seduced by the feel of the Thrustmaster throttle and never thought of trying out a second joystick. What does HOSAS give you that a throttle doesn't?

In Oolite? Absolutely nothing. Since they each have a throttle axis, I could play Oolite entirely on one joystick using a keyboard as a button box. And indeed I did do that with the Saitek for a bit before I acquired the second joystick.

I use the exact same pair of joysticks for Elite: Dangerous, however. And there using a HOSAS setup gives me direct access to all six degrees of freedom. I just kept the axis mappings the same between them.

Also there's a couple of robot games that use two joysticks that I wish I could play with them, but alas on that front.

[RockDoctor]

What does "HOSAS" mean?
(This may be a normal term in the "joystick" world, bit it means nowt to me.)

[phkb]

What does "HOSAS" mean?

Hands on Stick and Stick

[Cholmondely]

HOTAS = Hands on Throttle and Stick (ie: Joystick)
HOSAS = Hands on Stick and Stick (ie: 2 Joysticks)
HOSAK = Hands on Stick and Keyboard
HOSAM = Hands on Stick and Mouse

[iamthelowercase]

To me, HOTAS implies a second lever, with only one movement axis, and (crucially) more buttons on it. They might be on separate-able bases.

Suggesting that either of my sticks could be counted as a HOTAS if you keep both hands on it would result in me looking at you funny

[RockDoctor]

HOTAS = Hands on Throttle and Stick (ie: Joystick)
HOSAS = Hands on Stick and Stick (ie: 2 Joysticks)
HOSAK = Hands on Stick and Keyboard
HOSAM = Hands on Stick and Mouse

My BDASM vocabulary is (un-)suitably expanded?
From boat handling, there should also be a HOWATs - hands on wheel and throttles for a wheel attached to a rudder (or cross-axis thrusters) and independent throttles for left and right engines to yaw the spacecraft/ aircraft.
I had a colleague once who was between handing in his notice on the rigs, and taking up full-time training for converting his PPL (private pilot's license) to a Commercial Pilot's License ; he would routinely leave the works computer logged onto some version of FlightSimulator, with a contraption of joystick, throttles, foot pedals and various labelled buttons. And no way to get the computer back into a working configuration other than the plug. Which was bloody annoying. So I just got on with disconnecting the junk, throwing it into a drawer and getting on with the 03:00 report, not noting where which was plugged into what. I got ear ache from the company man for the workstation not being manned, and the computer obviously not "in work". The un-manned would mean he was out on deck, doing non-computer work ; but leaving the work's computer like that got ME (as lead hand) in trouble. Just as well he'd already handed his notice in.
Just as well the H&SE inspector didn't walk in on him in mid-flight, because we do have legal obligations, and the inspectors were on board, with the police, taking statements under caution about a recent high-potential incident.