Sizes and scale in Oolite (again)

[Wildeblood]

Does anybody have any idea as to how many people one would expect to find on a Coriolis station? 1km x 1km x 1km...

The maximum safe packing density for humans is one per square metre. At 4 per square metre (i.e. each person occupying a 50cm x 50cm box), crush injuries and deaths from stampedes become inevitable; at this density when someone trips and falls there simply isn't enough room for them to pick themselves up again, and when the people around the fallen attempt to move away to make room, further trips and falls occur. Densities between one and four per square metre are dangerous, but not necessarily inevitably fatal. So, assuming one per square metre, an area of 1000m x 1000m can "safely" accommodate one million people standing and cheering for their dear leader.

HTH.

(My point, if it's not obvious, is that it depends how one imagines the interior. If, as hiran suggests, one thinks of an aircraft carrier, then 1,000 - 10,000 would be the answer, but if one thinks of Kowloon walled city, then 1,000,000+ would be the answer.)

[Cholmondely]

Just to think through the above.

Hiran's comparison (very helpful - a useful starting point)
1) The aircraft carrier is much smaller than a Coriolis. (The greatest dimension, length is 1/3 that of the diameter of a Coriolis).
2) The aircraft carrier does not carry the families of the servicemen (I presume that a Coriolis contains the entire families of those working on it)
3) The aircraft carrier has no trade role (commodities warehouses, etc.)

And with the lack of believeable space factories for building spaceships/spacestations one presumes that much of the construction would take place inside the Corioli.

So the population would be rather greater than 5,000 - say 50,000+ including visitors, commodity dealers, shipyard salesmen, hotel staff, bar staff, factory employees, family members, school teachers, old age home staff, police, ... ?

[hiran]

Just to think through the above.

Hiran's comparison (very helpful - a useful starting point)
1) The aircraft carrier is much smaller than a Coriolis. (The greatest dimension, length is 1/3 that of the diameter of a Coriolis).
2) The aircraft carrier does not carry the families of the servicemen (I presume that a Coriolis contains the entire families of those working on it)
3) The aircraft carrier has no trade role (commodities warehouses, etc.)

And with the lack of believeable space factories for building spaceships/spacestations one presumes that much of the construction would take place inside the Corioli.

So the population would be rather greater than 5,000 - say 50,000+ including visitors, commodity dealers, shipyard salesmen, hotel staff, bar staff, factory employees, family members, school teachers, old age home staff, police, ... ?

Makes sense to me. I did not think of the families and then connected infrastructure. Probably recreational and some agricultural areas are also necessary.

Thinking again, the stations are too small to host it all. Remember the ships dock inside. Unless the station is just a terminal to hyperspace where all the real activity happens.

[Wildeblood]

Thinking again, the stations are too small to host it all.

Come again? Too small? You seem to under-estimate how much can occur on a square kilometre of real estate. Let me re-iterate: that is standing room for a million people. Where I live, the dear leaders assure us we can live comfortably with 75 square metres per person. Assume the Coriolis station is just a hollow volume, like an O'Neill cylinder, approximate its shape to a sphere with a 1km diameter: its surface area is then 3,141,596 square metres. Its internal surface area will be somewhat less, you can decide how thick the walls are. But, its internal surface area will also be somewhat more, because it's not actually a sphere. Anyway, Pi million divided by 75 is 41,888. That's at Perth, Western Australia, density, not Kowloon walled city density.

If it's not actually a big, hollow volume, but all levels and decks and whatnot, like Babylon 5 or the Death Star, then it can hold millions.

[hiran]

You seem to have a point. And then I look at the death star whis is claimed to have 200 km in diameter. Unknown crew though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Star

In a Coriolis station I'd consider at most the outer surface, away from the axis of rotation to be habitable - in respect to gravitation. Plus you need life support, vast amounts of cargo and docking space, machines and spare parts. So maybe the outer surface is sufficient - still the population would in no way be spread like in Perth.

[Wildeblood]

In a Coriolis station I'd consider at most the outer surface, away from the axis of rotation to be habitable - in respect to gravitation. Plus you need life support, vast amounts of cargo and docking space, machines and spare parts. So maybe the outer surface is sufficient - still the population would in no way be spread like in Perth.

When we've had these discussions in the past it's been about the number of docked ships that can fit in there, not the people. However many people you want to imagine, they can fit. But as soon as you start to think about dividing up the Coriolis volume by Cobra volumes or Anaconda volumes you realize it can't work the way most of us seem to imagine. It must be a process of dock, high speed robots unload and re-load cargo in minutes, refuel, launch to make room for the next ship waiting to dock. There can't be any leaving the ship parked while you go for a wander down to the space bar to catch up on gossip. There certainly can't be a shipyard in there, it just wouldn't fit.

[Redspear]

Some systems are also just busier than others. Regardless of capacity, there is only one docking bay.

A busy station doesn't require that many ships be docked but rather that turnover be high.
A significantly less busy station requires neither of those things however.

Maybe loitering is just fine in the low tech statons (observably less traffic) and is discouraged/charged in the high tech ones. So most choose not too (as I suspect do most players already) but there's no reason why some couldn't at least some of the time.

As for a shipyard, well some of the fuller, oxp loaded ones at the high tech stations might be unrealistic but a more modest one in a lower tech system might be quite servicable.

What would make the canonical square 1km make much more sense in terms of ship capacity however, would of course be if the ships hadn't all had their dimensions read as meters instead of the original feet.

[Cody]

... if the ships hadn't all had their dimensions read as meters instead of the original feet.

The old chestnuts are the best! Having set a tale partly aboard an Adder, that's the one that really bugs me!

[hiran]

Actually I was also wondering about scale and size of this ship...

[Redspear]

The old chestnuts are the best!

Speaking of which...

Actually I was also wondering about scale and size of this ship...

As long as it's not armed with one of those 'Seismosteller Triggering Devices'. They can be nasty.

[hiran]

The old chestnuts are the best!

Speaking of which...

Actually I was also wondering about scale and size of this ship...

As long as it's not armed with one of those 'Seismosteller Triggering Devices'. They can be nasty.

Here the scale should get visible: https://youtu.be/WYWpQPU1Wfw?t=4133
And I am wondering how they can have enough bombs (at least 20) and all the fuel in that small ship.