Janky time blues

[arquebus]

I may be dealing with some additional variables. The Goods Container expansions I had were manually installed, old versions (separated by size). I swapped those out for the managed one and added the CargoSpaceCorrection OXP, to no effect. I may have to tinker inside my save file to remove the goods container that's currently installed (so I get my pylon back) and then try it again with the updated combo OXP.

If you save the game in it's current state, with CargoSpaceCorrection installed, and then reload it, the issue should resolve itself.

Hallelujah! That did it, thank you.

[arquebus]

For me, with Stranger's World running and distances of 6,000km - 50,000km, it takes a long time to get to the sun. But with Stranger's World you only have to get close enough to scoop the solar wind flux. And this differs from sun to sun. The orange/red suns on the F6 screen can usually be scooped from the vicinity of the planet (but it is slo-o-ow). The closer I get to the sun, the faster the scooping. (Useful MFDs now shows the solar wind flux concentration).

What do you think of the new Vimana-X HUD?

In my current game, I overheated and exploded before a single gram of fuel got scooped. Twice.

I'm loving the Vimana-X HUD!

[Redspear]

But then in-universe it would make more sense for there to be a less expensive "cargo only" scoop. That's essentially how E:D does it. I don't normally praise E:D! This is one of those rare times.

Within the game universe, this thing is called a "fuel scoop" and has no other name anywhere listed inside the game. The fact that it can scoop cargo as well is ancillary, as far as the game universe is concerned.

 Cargo Scoop as Standard

I did try Elite Dangerous for the first time recently (another post at some time if I ever get around to it) and fuel scooping was one of several noticable differnces, some good, some not so much I thought.

[Cholmondely]

I did try Elite Dangerous for the first time recently (another post at some time if I ever get around to it) and fuel scooping was one of several noticeable differences, some good, some not so much I thought.

I'd be interested in your analysis.

[Redspear]

I'd be interested in your analysis.

Thanks. I'll get around to it I expect.

[phkb]

In my current game, I overheated and exploded before a single gram of fuel got scooped. Twice.

Can you PM me your current list of OXPs? Or point me to a place where you might have previously published them? I just watched your latest Oolite vid and was surprised by how big the stars are, and how far out from them you are when you hit mass lock. An OXP is doing this, but I'm not sure which one.

[phkb]

In my current game, I overheated and exploded before a single gram of fuel got scooped. Twice.

Nevermind, I found the culprit. You have Stranger's "Sun Gear" installed. That's the OXP that's making traditional fuel scooping practically impossible. It implements a different fuel scooping solution - scooping solar flux. You'll need an MFD to show you the solar flux value, which I guess you're meant to monitor to determine whether fuel scooping is viable. I'm not 100% on that, as I don't normally use Sun Gear. Check out the wiki entry  here

[arquebus]

In my current game, I overheated and exploded before a single gram of fuel got scooped. Twice.

Nevermind, I found the culprit. You have Stranger's "Sun Gear" installed. That's the OXP that's making traditional fuel scooping practically impossible. It implements a different fuel scooping solution - scooping solar flux. You'll need an MFD to show you the solar flux value, which I guess you're meant to monitor to determine whether fuel scooping is viable. I'm not 100% on that, as I don't normally use Sun Gear. Check out the wiki entry  here

Ahhhh ok, I'm just going to dump that OXP!

Also I thought for sure I was back down to normal stellar distances. In a previous run they were much farther away, so 8K seemed normal.

[Cholmondely]

Sun skimming, your OXP problems, Managing equipment lists

As for the scooping part, I've not actually been able to do it, because I can't get close enough to any star. I melt before the scoop starts working. Which suggests I need heat shielding, but then that just raises a whole bunch of additional in-universe questions. (If you can't scoop without heat shields, why would anyone sell you a scoop without heat shields? If you can scoop without heat shields, but the number of stars where you can do it is drastically limited, why would you bother? Most of your fueling is going to be on stations anyway, only rarely being able to use your scoop.)

Just watched your first attempt.

Sun scooping without heat shielding is suicide. SUICIDE!! Unless you are Phkb (see his comments below)

That was why heat shielding was brought into the game - to allow sun scooping without committing suicide! And when Planet Landing was added a couple of years later, that needed heat shielding too for the atmospheric friction.



•Cargo scooping does not need heat shielding.

•The size/colour of the star should not affect your technique - unless you are using Sun Gear OXP (part of Stranger's World) - where it determines how close to the sun you need to be.



Your OXPs don't seem to be working properly.

1) Hard Way OXP. This allows scooping without the need for heat shields at quite a distance from the sun (c.10,000km). You should have been scooping the solar flux with Sun Gear loaded.

So it was not working for some reason. Perhaps you were too close to the sun when you stopped and tried to scoop. I'm not convinced. Perhaps another OXP interfered. I don't know. And Hard Way should stop you manoeuvering so much in Torus - your movements should be quite limited - unless you are rolling. And should eat your fuel with any movement - just as happens in all the other space games you play.

2) Diplomancy OXP. This needs a visa for all Corporates (they want your dosh), and all Commies and Dictatorships (they want to stop the wrong political types getting in). You should have needed a visa for Zaonce. And Ra (2 episodes earlier).

3) Rock Hermits. I have always been able to save at Rock Hermits. Something wrong there, too.


Some Solutions

1) If you are using Hard Way, add in an MFD which gives a Solar Flux ReadOut - try Useful MFDs

Useful MFDs - see screen shot below - notice the Solar Wind reading in the top left MFD (6 lines down).

2) Without Hard Way, buy External Heat Shielding: It costs 1,500 ₢. and is available at Tech Level 5 or higher.

There is a YouTube video for sun scooping by Smivs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITefPraygXM

Notice how his temperature (CT bar) rises and rises before the scooping starts. And how long it takes for the temperature to fall again afterwards. And that is with External Heat Shielding.

The stuff on the wiki is from 2013 or so - before Oolite v.1.80 was introduced with its amplified sun glare.

With Sun Glare you either need
(1) an OXP which cuts the glare (Glare Clarifier or Glare Filter)
or (2) a HUD which allows you to read the stuff on it (Xenon HUD or the Vimana-X - which you have - but you may need to modify it when docked using the F4 screen options (under "Ship Systems" - Vimana-X HUD Settings - configures warning pop-ups, glare-proofing and special info slots)
or (3) to keep a sharp eye peeled gazing at your Advanced Space Compass which needs to be set at the sun - so that you can see if it is in front of you or behind you or where!

Look (in his YouTube movie) at Smiv's Space Compass - the yellow dot with the green surround is the sun in front - when it goes behind, it the surround turns red). And see how his ship changes colour as it heats up and cools down. It's tougher in a Python - they are slower than a Cobra Mk.3, so it takes longer to get into scooping range and his ship heats up more. And it takes longer to leave the furnace (hence he injects out, because he's masslocked by the sun).

In your first attempt you flew into the sun - then turned around - then dithered, then changed your mind, then turned around... all the time your ship was getting hotter and hotter and hotter. Compare what you did with what Smivs did.

Note that the sun glare also affects NPCs - see Manfred's Manoeuver

3) Finding stuff on your Ship's F5 Screen.

Try Phkb's new OXP: Loadout by Category - see screen shot below


4) Missile info

Try Phkb's new OXP: Missile Summary which displays your missile pylon contents on your Ship's F5 screen - see screen shot below

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Useful MFDs - notice the Solar Wind reading in the top left MFD (6 lines down).





Loadout by Category
The red "selling" lines come from another OXP - "Equipment 'Sell Item' Color" (used to be Equipment 'Remove Item' Color)





Missile Summary



Edited to incorporate Phkb's comments just below - and to emphasise the difference between the Arquebusian and the Smivsian approaches to sun skimming.

[phkb]

Sun scooping without heat shielding is suicide. SUICIDE!!

In the base game, you can quite successfully scoop fuel without heat shielding. A bunch of other OXP's can make it harder, but *the core mechanic works without heat shielding*.

[phkb]

And Sun Gear should stop you manoeuvering so much in Torus - your movements should be quite limited - unless you are rolling. And should eat your fuel with any movement

Isn't part of that in the "Hard Way" OXP?

[Cholmondely]

Another point.

Rock Hermits and refuelling.

F3 screen activities on a Rock Hermit can cost 4 1/2 x as much as they do at the Main Orbital Station. This includes refuelling. At this stage in your game it does not matter very much (you have oodles of dosh compared to your situation some months ago), but worth noting just in case.

It is easy to work this out.

One of my OXPs is headlights. I no longer buy them, and they take up no cargo/pylon space. So they are always present on my F3 screen. They should cost 10₢ (from TL 2). I'm currently parked at an RH which is charging 45₢!

In a SLAPU, the headlights sell for 8.5₢, in an Imperial Astrofactory 9₢, etc., etc.

[arquebus]

3) Rock Hermits. I have always been able to save at Rock Hermits. Something wrong there, too.

I can save at some, not others. Maybe there are ones added by an OXP that don't have that ability?

[phkb]

Pirate Coves are the ones you can’t save at.

[phkb]

Unless you are Phkb

Honestly, it's not that hard.

Here's a video of a fuel scoop run in the strict game with no heat shields or fuel injectors. Just scoops. There's no sound, as I generally have it switched off for dev work, and forgot to turn it on in the video.

YouTube: Fuel scooping without heat shields

At around 1:03 I'm mass-locked by the sun and drop out of torus.
At around 1:28 I switch to the rear view to make things a little easier to see
At around 1:54 the fuel scoops engage, and I switch back to front view, and then point my ship at the horizon line of the sun.
At around 2:09 the fuel scoops finish their work, and I point my ship away from the sun.
Note that I don't have injectors, so I can't boost away from here.
At around 2:59 the cabin temp hits the red zone.
At around 3:20 I exit mass-lock range and can engage torus.
At around 3:29 the cabin temp starts dropping as I leave the "hot zone" of the sun.

Hopefully that at least proves that I'm not some sort of piloting whizz and can accomplish the impossible!