Some keyboard control suggestions

[phkb]

I've been taking a look at some of the keyboard controls we currently have, and wanted to put two proposals before everyone to find out whether or not they would be worth it.

Item 1: Missile arm/disarm.
At present, we have two keys to do this job: T to arm, and U to disarm. However, it makes a lot more sense for one key to do both jobs, working out which to do based on the current state. If the missiles are armed, then disarm. If they're disarmed, then arm. We could potentially recover a key by combining this function.

Item 2: Joystick precision toggle.
At present, there are two distinct precision controls: one for joystick (which can only be set with a joystick button), and one for keyboard (where you hold down Ctrl to achieve the same job). However, it might make more sense to combine both of these settings into one. First, we gain the ability to get a joystick button back by allowing the function to be mapped to a key instead. Plus, keyboard users gain the ability to toggle the precision on and off, rather than having to keep a key pressed down.

Let me know what you think. Do you rely on having separate buttons for arming and disarming missiles? Would combining the precision functions create confusion?

[Cholmondely]

I've been taking a look at some of the keyboard controls we currently have, and wanted to put two proposals before everyone to find out whether or not they would be worth it.

Item 1: Missile arm/disarm.
At present, we have two keys to do this job: T to arm, and U to disarm. However, it makes a lot more sense for one key to do both jobs, working out which to do based on the current state. If the missiles are armed, then disarm. If they're disarmed, then arm. We could potentially recover a key by combining this function.

Item 2: Joystick precision toggle.
At present, there are two distinct precision controls: one for joystick (which can only be set with a joystick button), and one for keyboard (where you hold down Ctrl to achieve the same job). However, it might make more sense to combine both of these settings into one. First, we gain the ability to get a joystick button back by allowing the function to be mapped to a key instead. Plus, keyboard users gain the ability to toggle the precision on and off, rather than having to keep a key pressed down.

Let me know what you think. Do you rely on having separate buttons for arming and disarming missiles? Would combining the precision functions create confusion?

Missile arm/disarm: This is taken from Classic Elite (see original Manual p37). Would you be keeping the original distinction for the "Strict Game"? Also, Norby's ILS uses one of these two as an alternative for targeting the station in case of dire need (forget details).

Joystick precision: Do you mean add both versions (depression & toggle) to both keyboard & to joystick - or to eliminate one of them and get both joystick and keyboard to use the one remaining?

[phkb]

Would you be keeping the original distinction for the "Strict Game"?

If I did the change, I'd probably remove one key mapping entirely, and it would apply to all versions (strict or not).

Norby's ILS uses one of these two as an alternative for targeting the station in case of dire need

That might need a patch, but with the ability to map OXP equipment functions to keys/buttons, the options for fixing it will be a lot easier.

Do you mean add both versions (depression & toggle) to both keyboard & to joystick

It would probably work out being both - you could use the ctrl key to do precision flying with the joystick, and press a button on your joystick (or keyboard) to enable precision flying with the keyboard. I wouldn't remove the ctrl key option for keyboard flyers, it would just become usable for joystick as well.

[hiran]

Item 1: Missile arm/disarm.
Item 2: Joystick precision toggle.

I am fine with the Missile arm/disarm. Such toggles already exist, e.g. for arming weapons.

Joystick precision: On the keyboard you need some key to control precision mode, and so far I was fine with having to press Ctrl since every now and then I need to release it quickly. A toggle would not help any better here because you cannot move your finger from that key anyway.

For the joystick I believe precision mode is not required as I'd rather configure that with the axis movement/response ratio. For others who want to still ahve a precision toggle it should probably be a toggle button since holding down a joystick button that is not directly under your thumb is not comfortable (in my eyes).

In total I think I am saying to not change the precision controls, but feel free to improve the missile arm trigger.

[phkb]

Item 1: Missile arm/disarm.
Item 2: Joystick precision toggle.

I am fine with the Missile arm/disarm. Such toggles already exist, e.g. for arming weapons.

Joystick precision: On the keyboard you need some key to control precision mode, and so far I was fine with having to press Ctrl since every now and then I need to release it quickly. A toggle would not help any better here because you cannot move your finger from that key anyway.

For the joystick I believe precision mode is not required as I'd rather configure that with the axis movement/response ratio. For others who want to still ahve a precision toggle it should probably be a toggle button since holding down a joystick button that is not directly under your thumb is not comfortable (in my eyes).

In total I think I am saying to not change the precision controls, but feel free to improve the missile arm trigger.

I think you misunderstood what I was proposing. I wouldn't be removing the Ctrl key for keyboard precision. It would stay. It would just additionally be able to work for the joystick. And having an option for keyboard to toggle the precision could be considered a user accessibility issue, as holding down a key can be awkward for some players. Either way, you wouldn't be losing anything. It would be expanding the existing functionality to cross from keyboard to joystick and vice versa.

[Cody]

Sounds good to me!

[hiran]

I am fine with the Missile arm/disarm. Such toggles already exist, e.g. for arming weapons.

Joystick precision: On the keyboard you need some key to control precision mode, and so far I was fine with having to press Ctrl since every now and then I need to release it quickly. A toggle would not help any better here because you cannot move your finger from that key anyway.

For the joystick I believe precision mode is not required as I'd rather configure that with the axis movement/response ratio. For others who want to still ahve a precision toggle it should probably be a toggle button since holding down a joystick button that is not directly under your thumb is not comfortable (in my eyes).

In total I think I am saying to not change the precision controls, but feel free to improve the missile arm trigger.

I think you misunderstood what I was proposing. I wouldn't be removing the Ctrl key for keyboard precision. It would stay. It would just additionally be able to work for the joystick. And having an option for keyboard to toggle the precision could be considered a user accessibility issue, as holding down a key can be awkward for some players. Either way, you wouldn't be losing anything. It would be expanding the existing functionality to cross from keyboard to joystick and vice versa.

Oh, additional features without removing/overwriting old ones? Then I am all for it!

[phkb]

Interesting curiosity: Did you know that "u" also turns off the Ident system (the "r" key)? Neither did I!

[Cholmondely]

Interesting curiosity: Did you know that "u" also turns off the Ident system (the "r" key)? Neither did I!

"u" is vital in my gaming.

I find that the "targeting" tends to be sticky.

When docking, my target often shifts back to a previous target and the only fix is to reach for "u".

Also in combat, I can find that my targeting is stuck and impossible to shift to another target, and takes several stabs at "u" to achieve it.

[phkb]

How vital? If the change I’m proposing is accepted, you’d press “t” to switch on missile targeting, and then “t” again to turn it off. Same with the “r” Ident system - once press turns it on, another press turns it off. “u” would end up doing nothing.

I mean, I could leave “u” in the game to keep doing what it’s doing right now, but then we don’t gain a lot by doing so.

[Switeck]

Item 1: Missile arm/disarm.
At present, we have two keys to do this job: T to arm, and U to disarm. However, it makes a lot more sense for one key to do both jobs, working out which to do based on the current state. If the missiles are armed, then disarm. If they're disarmed, then arm. We could potentially recover a key by combining this function.

How about t to arm and SHIFT+T to disarm?

That way, no matter how many times you hit t, the missile is armed...or no matter how many times you press Shift+T the missile is disarmed.

...sadly, looks like Shift+T is already mapped to target nearest incoming (enemy?) missile.

[phkb]

How about t to arm and SHIFT+T to disarm?

Well, ignoring the issue of the current mapping, that solution doesn’t get us any keys back. The point was to reduce the number of keys, not add more!

[phkb]

I should also mention the point of this exercise is to improve the game. In my mind, that might lead to small tweaks in behaviour that make the most of something new. The question then becomes, is this new system better than what we have right now? If the general consensus is that this is not an improvement over what we have, then we shelve it and move on to the next thing.

To restate the proposal, what I’m suggesting is to remove the “u” key in favour of having “r” and “t” function in an on/off toggle state. The benefits are you only need 1 key/button for each job, rather than 2. The downside is that there would need to be a small change in pilot behaviour while getting used to the new system. Does the benefit outweigh the downside? Let me know what you think.

[Cholmondely]

I usually have to press "u" several times to deselect the current unwanted target. I'm unsure how combining functions would improve things. (Most modern on/off switches now seem to have several functions, and it is becoming more and more difficult to simply turn things "off" nowadays).

Now all this might just be another AppleMac bug... (I also sometimes find that things just spin crazily if I've been playing too long - for example a Nephthys station turning head over heels. Makes docking really interesting...)

[phkb]

I usually have to press "u" several times to deselect the current unwanted target.

Hmm. I’ve never had a problem with unselecting a target, which suggests it’s probably a combination of OXPs that are competing for your attention and auto selecting targets for you.

Put it this way: if the OXPs were working correctly and pressing “u” once was enough to deselect your current target, would it be a big leap to switch to a toggle switch, rather than having two buttons?