Do any of you play by an "honor code"?

[Switeck]

Accepting the first plea of mercy is interesting. Not that I'm merciful on anyone that's shown a demonstrably unjustified willingness to endanger myself or others in a bad way.

I've seen freighters asking for help while continuing towards a group of 5+ pirates... I feel no guilt for not suicidally trying to help them.

This is why we play honor code. I've been Dangerous before, but with loading and saving and cheap easy economics and taking advantage of every thing we can do instead of should do... it meant nothing and I started again several times and deleted the save in self-disgust. Playing this way, and in character, every time I look at my pearly white pure save I feel a fantastic satisfaction. When/if I get to Dangerous again, I'll know that I well and truly earned it.

I feel that way about my Broke Adder savegame, although admittedly I've died a couple times on it...sometimes due to game bugs. Getting to Dangerous status isn't going to happen on it soon. It mainly exists to see if I can struggle to EARN enough credits for a Cobra 3.

[szaumix]

I feel like I know more Elite/Oolite players have and do little things like this. So this thread is as good a place as any to dump honor code/ in-character habits.



I've recently tried out a line of logic where I'll say, "that offender/fugitive (as opposed to known pirate upon the innocent) is outnumbered and doomed anyway. Someone is definitely going to pick up their bounty: whatever that commander has done, it might as well be me." (Interestingly, when I was a younger lad I engaged in similar reasoning in certain real life situations). Now, I've only done it a few times, but I still felt like a cold-hearted jerk hypocrite smuggler/opportunist that was helping to execute someone who at best had done no confirmable moral wrong and at worst they were my moral kin!

Then I realized: maybe they had an escape trick up their sleeve? Maybe this was a rendezvous point and someone would soon meet and rescue them -- or at least give them a fighting chance? Maybe they could outweave their hunters until they left them alone in exasperation? Maybe one or more of the hunters could have been persuaded by cargo, bribe, or begging to cease? Or worst of all: maybe I could open a wormhole myself, then and there, and give them a chance!?

Protip: this is not good for conscientious commanders. Don't do this unless your heart has turned ice cold by pirates and you have become Judge Dredd: viewtopic.php?p=284098#p284098

[stranger]

The very existence of OXPs like Illegal Goods Tweak means that some people prefers to play by an honor code, right? So answer to question

Do any of you play by an "honor code"?

will be definitely “yes”.
There is another point of view, of course. It is just the game, not real life, so if you can exploit game features, why not to exploit it? Technically it is not cheating and such exploits are game design issues, not yours. Moreover, some people thinks that knowing such exploits is a part of game experience.
Well. Personally I prefer fair play. It means for me balanced game AND honor code.
Regarding balanced game – there is simple rule: honest game mechanics without any handicaps to NPC ships. Your Cobra Mk III must be identical to poor bastard’s Cobra Mk III it terms of velocity, energy, recharge level etc.
Practically in vanilla game you have two crucial advantages over NPC ships.
1. NPC ships never uses Torus drive
2. NPC ships has only energy level, not shields
On the other hand, NPCs ships has no equipment damage. Having damaged WFI you’ll have tactical disadvantage over bad guy equipped with undestructable WFI.
There are also handicaps to pirate and trader Cobra Mk III in vanilla shipdata.plist – ship speed limited to 300 agains 350 for player’s Cobra Mk III.
Some such issues can be fixed by OXPs more or less easy. Honestly, some of my OXPs were written to make game more balanced, not just more challenging.
I also like OXPs like Deep Space Pirates preventing exploits of evident features of game mechanics like fast travel to planet on Torus drive outside busy space lane. Such feature of vanilla system populator breaks game immersion.
Now regarding honor code.
Some rules mentioned in this topic can be defined as rules of engagement. It is not ethical decisions, just rules of safe and effective work.
Some of my personal rules of engagement:
Switch weapon from SAFE to ARM only on RED alert.
Open fire only to confirmed enemy (identify target status, than fire!).
Avoid collateral damage. If I have any risk to accidentally land shot on friendly or neutral ship during dogfight – I’ll hold fire until safe firing solution.
There are also unwritten rules of honor code.
Never kill escape capsule. Even if it was ejected from enemy ship two seconds earlier. I win this battle already. There is no glory nor any practical reason to kill defeated enemy.
There is a feature of Oolite game mechanics allowing kill without any legal issues. Smashing escape capsule against your ship hull is not killing. Just an accident. Not for me. It is kill.
Rescue escape pods. Ironically, due to Illegal Goods Tweak it is not just act of humanity, now it is profitable business. Lost part of personal satisfaction maybe, but it is a step in right direction. It makes Ooniverse a bit easer to survive for innocent victims of piracy. Personally for me – depends on situation. I’ll always rescue escape pod if I can do it safely. Lost of some profit from dumped cargo is no matters. Rescue escape pod during combat? Depends on situation. I’ll try it if I am not directly engaged in combat AND have WFI. Maintaining straight course to pick up escape pod under heavy fire is not smart tactical decision.
Never trade illegal items. Absolute. No exceptions.
Never attack ships with Clean status. Absolute.
Attacking ships with Offender status? Honestly, I always do it if I have adequate equipped ship and enough fuel. I think I’ll change mind knowing this guy just accidentally broke docking protocol. But Oolite legal status is opaque. It is no way to distinguish such minor offender from opportunistic robber or slave dealer. Phkb’s Bounty System is good attempt to improve vanilla legal system, but it still not enough.
Helping innocent trader in hopeless fight against bandits? I’ll do it if I have WFI and enough fuel to break engagement and reach station. Even if I have only pulse laser I’ll divert one or two bandits from victim – and maybe he'll survive long enough for arriving Galcop Vipers.
Helping Galcop Vipers to kill single bandit? Yes, I’ll do it having WFI and enough fuel again. He is outnumbered, but it is not jousting. Achieving fire superiority is legal part of combat tactics. This guy selected wrong side. Nothing personal.
Provide opponent opportunity to open fire first? No. Again, this is combat, not jousting. Why waste advantage of good firing position?
Hold fire if poor bastard begged for mercy? No. He’ll recover two minutes later and maybe he’ll attack less fortunate trader five minutes later. Eject and you’ll be safe. You have no escape pod? Sorry.

Thank you for interesting topic, szaumix!

[Cody]

There is a feature of Oolite game mechanics allowing kill without any legal issues...

Yep, ramming is perfectly acceptable, even in the aegis.

[Old Murgh]

There is a feature of Oolite game mechanics allowing kill without any legal issues...

Yep, ramming is perfectly acceptable, even in the aegis.

is there an oxp that addresses just that, defining (accidental) manslaughter as murder?

[Cody]

Not that I'm aware of, but it might be tricky to get right - accidents do happen.

[szaumix]

I've read your post a couple of times, Stranger. Some great stuff to ponder. We think very much alike!

Regarding balanced game – there is simple rule: honest game mechanics without any handicaps to NPC ships. Your Cobra Mk III must be identical to poor bastard’s Cobra Mk III

Couldn't have put it better! This is exactly how I would describe my overall goal: I want to 'feel' like an average Joe Trader who finally acquired a vessel, and scrapped my way through the dangers and costs and hiccups of the realities of interstellar trade. I do not want any supernormal advantages that all the other "average Joe Traders" in the galaxies don't have (unless I pay for or earn them -- as other traders also can) and I go to quite some length to redefine, balance and explain my Ooniverse along those lines specifically.

This is why risk:reward and cost ratios are so important to me. If low risk, or the ease of doing any given thing is too successful or lucrative -- why doesn't everyone do it? And if everyone does it, as soon as they are doing it, there will be an equalizing rebalance destroying that ratio of that thing until it is no longer too easy or too successful -- whether by market or social factors, since nature abhors a vaccuum.

Never trade illegal items. Absolute. No exceptions.

Tee hee hee.

[Switeck]

This is why risk:reward and cost ratios are so important to me. If low risk, or the ease of doing any given thing is too successful or lucrative -- why doesn't everyone do it? And if everyone does it, as soon as they are doing it, there will be an equalizing rebalance destroying that ratio of that thing until it is no longer too easy or too successful -- whether by market or social factors, since nature abhors a vaccuum..

Heavy Government Subsidies (tm) make a mockery of a pure supply-and-demand market balance.

Why do all the commodities stay in narrow price limits? subsidies and price controls!
Why is fuel so cheap? subsidies and price controls!
Ship prices...FAR from their point-of-manufacture ...are precise down to the exact credit? subsidies and price controls!
And the ships for sale are never dinged-up/damaged either!
The tax support of trillions of beings may be required to sustain the space activities of 100,000 ships (if we're being generous) and fewer than 10,000 stations even counting Rock Hermits.

Never trade illegal items. Absolute. No exceptions.

...Unless you "acquire" them through questionable means, such as hunting pirates or stumbling on the aftermath of traders dying to whatever?

Do you just dump/eject scooped illegal items or sell them at the main station?
Admittedly, OXPs/OXZs give another option for the freeing of Slaves.
...I'm not sure if there's something similar for Narcotics and Firearms.

[Cholmondely]

Admittedly, OXPs/OXZs give another option for the freeing of Slaves.
...I'm not sure if there's something similar for Narcotics and Firearms.

Illegal Goods Tweak OXP affects all three (and is customisable through Library OXP).

[Cholmondely]

Heavy Government Subsidies (tm) make a mockery of a pure supply-and-demand market balance.

Why do all the commodities stay in narrow price limits? subsidies and price controls!
Why is fuel so cheap? subsidies and price controls!
Ship prices...FAR from their point-of-manufacture ...are precise down to the exact credit? subsidies and price controls!
And the ships for sale are never dinged-up/damaged either!
The tax support of trillions of beings may be required to sustain the space activities of 100,000 ships (if we're being generous) and fewer than 10,000 stations even counting Rock Hermits.

Never trade illegal items. Absolute. No exceptions.

...Unless you "acquire" them through questionable means, such as hunting pirates or stumbling on the aftermath of traders dying to whatever?

Do you just dump/eject scooped illegal items or sell them at the main station?
Admittedly, OXPs/OXZs give another option for the freeing of Slaves.
...I'm not sure if there's something similar for Narcotics and Firearms.

Does it all have to be subsidy? It can't just be government decrees?

Nowadays with representative democracy we do have subsidies. But I wonder how all-encompassing they really are - and to what extent they existed elsewhere (Communist Russia/China, Fascist Germany/Italy, modern dictatorial Russia, the Feudal worlds, etc.). And to what extent they included entire categories (Food, Textiles...) vs. specific products (possibly Bananas at X-mas in East Germany or Vodka in mother Russia, free Pasta in ancient Rome).

What I have come across much more frequently are instances of customs duties putting the prices up (look at the prices of Pepper in medieval Europe, the treatment of Quinine in Europe in the early modern period, the duties on luxury foods brought over from the continent to England in the Georgian period - and the major role of smugglers)

References:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeds_of_Change_(book) Seeds of Change (book)]
[https://www.historyextra.com/period/mod ... r-society/ Georgian Smugglers]
[https://18thcenturydiary.org.uk/smuggli ... -officers/ see Sections of James Woodforde's diary (Norfolk Georgian Clergyman)]

[Cody]

- and the major role of smugglers

Viva los contrabandistas!

[szaumix]

Heavy Government Subsidies (tm) make a mockery of a pure supply-and-demand market balance.

That's some quality handwaivium

[Cholmondely]

Just wondering how many of you play by an "honor code" that is not covered by game mechanics, OXPs, tweaking etc? ...

This: New Idea : "House Rools" seems relevant

[CaptSolo]

Indeed I do.

[Cholmondely]

Indeed I do.

Any chance of some details?