Musings for v.1.92

[phkb]

Not at present. I’ll add it to the list

[Switeck]

I manually remove OXZs pretty regularly...and a problem I have even with the manual removal (usually moving rather than deleting)is filenames!
The EM may describe a OXZ and even give its official name...but not always its OXZ filename.

Now was the filename for Illegal Goods Tweak...

IGT.oxz
Illegal_Goods_Tweak.oxz
oolite.oxp.capt_murphy.Illegal_Goods_Tweak.oxz
oolite.oxp.Capt_Murphy.Illegal_Goods_Tweak.oxz
oolite.oxp.CaptMurphy.Illegal_Goods_Tweak.oxz
oolite.oxp.Captain_Murphy.Illegal_Goods_Tweak.oxz

...I forget.

I also missed in the EM name of the author/s and a link to the readme for the OXZ and/or message forum thread to explain what I'm installing.
Probably just something else I'm overlooking...


I can easily manage without any of these things, despite my complaints and frustrations.
But for new players it's probably necessary for installing/removing OXZs to be easier.

(Not your fault over any of this phkb, the EM just feels like it's in a very unfinished state...)

[another_commander]

Sorry, but... what is this then?


Edit:

I also missed in the EM name of the author/s and a link to the readme for the OXZ and/or message forum thread to explain what I'm installing.
Probably just something else I'm overlooking...

and this:

btw, entering this screen automatically copies the link at the bottom to your clipboard.

[phkb]

I thought there was a way to delete things!

[Nite Owl]

I manually remove OXZs pretty regularly... and a problem I have even with the manual removal (usually moving rather than deleting) is filenames!

Have mentioned this before and it proved mildly controversial but here it goes once again. An OXZ file is a ZIP file that you can externally rename to anything you like. Using your previous example, in my ManagedAddOns folder it is currently named Illegal Goods Tweak v2.2.6.oxz which gives me both the common name of the OXZ and its version number for easy reference with regards to updates, backups, moves, and removals. The key to doing this is to NOT rename anything in the manifest.plist file of an OXZ as doing so will prevent that OXZ from being recognized by the Expansion Manager leading to problems with updates, installations, and removals via the Expansion Manager. The Expansion Manager ONLY reads information from the manifest.plist file of an OXZ. It does not matter at all what the external name of the OXZ is. Hope this helps.

P.S.
The above is based on a Windows Operating System. Your mileage may vary under either Linux or Apple. Have never used either of these alternate Operating Systems so they cannot be spoken for by me. If any of their users wish to comment on the viability of the above then please do so.

[szaumix]

P.S.
The above is based on a Windows Operating System. Your mileage may vary under either Linux or Apple. Have never used either of these alternate Operating Systems so they cannot be spoken for by me. If any of their users wish to comment on the viability of the above then please do so.

Linux master race reporting in! confirming that a rename indeed does not affect the installation status as listed in the EM: the manifest does.

[Switeck]

Sorry, but... what is this then?

And I completely overlooked the remove option.

Edit:

I also missed in the EM name of the author/s and a link to the readme for the OXZ and/or message forum thread to explain what I'm installing.
Probably just something else I'm overlooking...

and this:

btw, entering this screen automatically copies the link at the bottom to your clipboard.

So for authors, readme text files, and forum thread/s on the subject...
That feels rather slow to do that for more than a few.

And there's still a minor problem with filenames...
The web URL given might point to the installed filename if it is still identical to the website.

But some OXZs saw a version change and the filename was changed with it by the EM because...
Just as Nite Owl pointed out, the OXZ filename can be anything.
Which can make it hard to find manually when I have 200+ installed...especially if it doesn't follow a specific naming convention, like I mentioned in my previous post on the subject.

And because I'm moving the files manually to remove them, using Oolite's EM remover probably isn't what I'm looking for.


I did find this info:

Expansion pack manager:
=======================

* Installation status now updated without having to restart manager
* Missing requirements will be installed automatically if possible
* Ability to filter expansion pack lists by pressing 'f'
* Can view additional information on packs by pressing 'i'
* Can extract a pack to an OXP in your AddOns folder by pressing 'x'
* Update date now visible in OXZ manager

...in CHANGELOG.TXT, 540 lines down under:
"Changes between Oolite 1.82 and Oolite 1.84:"

( Incidentally, has anyone here ever pressed 'x' to extract a pack to a OXP? )

I was expecting details about Expansion Pack Manager in either:
OoliteReadMe.pdf
or
OoliteRS.pdf

Which it may be as well...but I may have overlooked the obvious again.

[Cody]

...Incidentally, has anyone here ever pressed 'x' to extract a pack to a OXP?

Yeah - it transfers the selected OXZ to your AddOns folder (with a .off suffix).

[Switeck]

...Incidentally, has anyone here ever pressed 'x' to extract a pack to a OXP?

Yeah - it transfers the selected OXZ to your AddOns folder (with a .off suffix).

And I can use that as a semi-quick workaround for locating various OXZ filenames I want to manually remove.

[Stormrider]

Also, I'm guessing "System Features Sunspotsair traffic control" was meant to be 2 separate items?

Yes my stupid laptop has a touchscreen I never use, but it sometimes randomly copy/paste's what I have selected, it should have just been System Features Sunspots.

Case in point right now is something I kinda feel should be part of the core Vanilla game -- freighters with escorts leaving the main station should at least sometimes announce that they're about to jump (creating a wormhole for the escorts to follow through on)...and where they are jumping to.
I'm sure I've seen an OXP or OXZ that does that via a manifest list of ships to the main station, but I cannot remember what it was...maybe something cim made?

I believe it was cim's work Comms Pack A.

Currently, the in-game OXZ manager is pretty good for downloading new OXZs...but not so good for removing them.

I find its a little slow if you don't have the best connection, although, it deletes them quickly enough. I was somewhat critical of the addition of the manager at first, but I now believe it was a good thing to do. It really gives players the ability see some of the OXP's that are available and to experiment with them without even shutting the game down.

Just to confirm - you'd chop down the selection to these...

I don't know about Ship's Library, I said I'd support a manual that could be accessed from the F2 or the options screen. I had forgotten about the other books you listed for the OXP, but does it make sense to add the reader to the core without also adding books one can read? Then it becomes canon.

*Unsure whether you are pro- or anti- Remove Individual Pylons - and agree with you about lasers. But if you are just moving your laser to another mount...

Even moving a laser to another mount should require the service of a technician costing the player at least some credits, unless you figure you take care of your own maintenance, but then the player should, at least, have to buy a tool kit.

Therefore whatever changes be decided upon it would likely be wise that they be both

minimal
reversible

Reversible is the most important, I believe.
I was very excited when cim made the changes to the market that allowed for new commodities, which was not a minimal change, but it broke so many old OXP's one could make the case that it was a poor improvement. cim has even mentioned that it would have been better to at least have more backward compatibility.
I believe changes like this that give OXP authors more ability to modify the game are excellent more what I'm interested in seeing, but should be implemented in such a way that doesn't create this kind of conflict.

[Switeck]

Case in point right now is something I kinda feel should be part of the core Vanilla game -- freighters with escorts leaving the main station should at least sometimes announce that they're about to jump (creating a wormhole for the escorts to follow through on)...and where they are jumping to.
I'm sure I've seen an OXP or OXZ that does that via a manifest list of ships to the main station, but I cannot remember what it was...maybe something cim made?

I believe it was cim's work Comms Pack A.

I want to strongly emphasize again that I believe freighters sometimes announcing their jump route to their escorts mostly but also to free riders ...is very fitting to have in "Plain Vanilla" Oolite.

[Cody]

I believe freighters sometimes announcing their jump route to their escorts mostly but also to free riders ...is very fitting to have in "Plain Vanilla" Oolite.

Some of the more canny merchants might announce a different destination to the one they're actually heading for.

[Switeck]

I believe freighters sometimes announcing their jump route to their escorts mostly but also to free riders ...is very fitting to have in "Plain Vanilla" Oolite.

Some of the more canny merchants might announce a different destination to the one they're actually heading for.

Might be a bad idea to tick off someone following right behind you...they likely will have fuel to leave for elsewhere and may shoot before they go.
If someone tells me they're going to Leesti from Lave...and I end up at Riedquat, I'm likely going to treat them like they're a pirate attacking me.
Fewer than 1 out of 20 will declare a different destination than they go to...probably even fewer than 1 out of 20 of those are likely to do it twice.

The way that freighters in the past choose their destination (purely random, best I could tell)...this won't be hugely valuable.
You can get a wormhole scanner before long and not even need this info.
It will just be a little touch to make the universe feel a little more real without having to resort to lots of OXPs/OXZs.

And anything that might interfere with this can disable this OXZ to install something better/different.

[Cholmondely]

I believe freighters sometimes announcing their jump route to their escorts mostly but also to free riders ...is very fitting to have in "Plain Vanilla" Oolite.

Some of the more canny merchants might announce a different destination to the one they're actually heading for.

Might be a bad idea to tick off someone following right behind you...they likely will have fuel to leave for elsewhere and may shoot before they go.
If someone tells me they're going to Leesti from Lave...and I end up at Riedquat, I'm likely going to treat them like they're a pirate attacking me.
Fewer than 1 out of 20 will declare a different destination than they go to...probably even fewer than 1 out of 20 of those are likely to do it twice.

The way that freighters in the past choose their destination (purely random, best I could tell)...this won't be hugely valuable.
You can get a wormhole scanner before long and not even need this info.
It will just be a little touch to make the universe feel a little more real without having to resort to lots of OXPs/OXZs.

And anything that might interfere with this can disable this OXZ to install something better/different.

Looking at it from another perspective, just followed a Refugee Adder through his wormhole to Celabile (he did advertise - Communications Pack A?). I seemed to have no way of accepting his offer. Feeling protective I tried to tail him to the main orbital, but he kept trying to dodge me. And I had no way of communicating and telling him that I was on his side. It got too frustrating and I eventually buzzed off.

There should be some way of agreeing to travel with others as a group without dosh being involved. But this is OXP stuff really, no?

Also copied to the Iron Ass OXP thread dealing with Refugee Adder AI....

[szaumix]

Looking at it from another perspective, just followed a Refugee Adder through his wormhole to Celabile (he did advertise - Communications Pack A?). I seemed to have no way of accepting his offer. Feeling protective I tried to tail him to the main orbital, but he kept trying to dodge me. And I had no way of communicating and telling him that I was on his side. It got too frustrating and I eventually buzzed off.

There should be some way of agreeing to travel with others as a group without dosh being involved. But this is OXP stuff really, no?

Not necessarily!

I interact with other ships, abstain from interactions, and try to be interpreted as "polite" or "impolite" based on a few assumptions.
1. language barriers
2. super high levels of paranoia due to rampant, completely out of control piracy. The same way you just don't follow behind someone at 11PM in a violent ghetto without them getting upset at you for it, the same way you don't wave to everyone or anyone in said ghetto. Everyone is squinting at everyone else trying to work out what their deal is. Shootings and gang wars every day. Africa levels of warlords and crime and piracy. That's how Elite/Oolite always felt to me, in fact it's more or less the inevitable conclusion of the levels of piracy we see and experience in everyday playing.
3. Even if you could communicate good intentions, pirates could and would just lie/pretend to be benign over comms before an attack. So the exact same "language" of ettiquette applies -- the only manners that matter are your ship's actions. (Weapons off, keep your distance, don't follow unless you're going the same destination in that direction, etc).

I actually kind of like it this way.