Musings for v.1.92

[Stormrider]

I wonder if these oxp's should be in the Vanilla game code.

cim:
System Features Rings
System Features Sunspotsair traffic control
Ship's Library

phkb:
Solar Flares
Planet Forests and Oceans
Remove Individual Pylon (if we charge for selling pylons, should we not charge for removing lasers?)
Equipment 'Sell Item' Color
Auto-prime equipment
'No Market' Notification
MaintenanceTuneUp

redspear:
Paddling Pool tied in with the Easy Start option on the gallame menu (and start at Lave, not Zaonce).

norby:
LogEvents

I always feel new features deserve careful consideration.
I don't feel that adding more graphical detail is a good idea because not everyone has high end rigs desigfeel ned to run AAA games and doing so dictates which details get enhanced. I feel the player should have the control to decide which graphical details get enhanced on a low spec system. I realize Oolite is not quite AAA graphically and my laptop might display the graphics fine, but what is the long term cost of GPU/CPU life? I have a desktop that can handle it, but I'm often out of town and use my laptop when I get the rare chance for development.
Rings doesn't make sense to me in particular without gas giants and the feature restricted to those planets, but I feel the idea that the mainstation would be next to a gas giant is questionable.
Are sunspots even visible now with the glare/fog?

There is already a "Ship Library" and a "Library.OXP" so that's confusing but anyway I think if something like Ship's Library is implemented it might be better to add the manual to the Options screen or even perhaps the F2 screen rather than cluttering up the F4 screen, but then what about the rest of the OXP that could allow other "books" to be displayed? Sadly no one seems to have taken advantage of this to create any books other than the one cim put out after releasing the OXP, but it would be a shame to lose it.

I should get at least 50% of market price for a used laser, but not more than 75% I think.

Equipment 'Sell Item' Color I think is fine.

Rather than Auto-prime equipment I think Mapping keys/buttons to OXP equipment may well be the answer to this.

The rest, I think, are sensible enough and I'd support them, although, I don't know if the Maintenance tuneup is really needed.

I wonder too;

Gallery : can show newcomers all ''encounterable'' entities

&

Station dock control

I can't say I'd support Gallery, I think its just too much as it is the only OXP that I have ever installed that caused any real graphics related issues and that was on a mid level gaming rig built in 2015 or so, my poor laptop would lock up for sure.

I feel Station dock control creates a specific scenario of an authoritarian state where commanders are under constant surveillance and that some of that information is available to anyone, not something I am interested in.

I am not saying these are not fine OXPs, but I don't think that everyone might want them and I feel one of the best features of Oolite is the ability the player has to customize the game.

[Switeck]

Considering what Stormrider stated, I have to strongly agree -- I'd almost forgotten what it's like to try to play Oolite on a marginal PC...but what I recall was it's painful.

So the only few OXPs/OXZs that really need to be included are:

phkb:
Equipment 'Sell Item' Color
'No Market' Notification

redspear:
Paddling Pool tied in with the Easy Start option on the gallame menu (and start at Lave, not Zaonce).

These 3 items serve to make the game easier to play and understand.

I'm not sure about:
Auto-prime equipment
MaintenanceTuneUp
LogEvents
...because I haven't studied exactly how they work.

The rest is mostly eye-candy or additional complexity.

Also, I'm guessing "System Features Sunspotsair traffic control" was meant to be 2 separate items?

[Cholmondely]

I always feel new features deserve careful consideration.
I don't feel that adding more graphical detail is a good idea because not everyone has high end rigs desigfeel ned to run AAA games and doing so dictates which details get enhanced. I feel the player should have the control to decide which graphical details get enhanced on a low spec system. I realize Oolite is not quite AAA graphically and my laptop might display the graphics fine, but what is the long term cost of GPU/CPU life? I have a desktop that can handle it, but I'm often out of town and use my laptop when I get the rare chance for development.
Rings doesn't make sense to me in particular without gas giants and the feature restricted to those planets, but I feel the idea that the mainstation would be next to a gas giant is questionable.
Are sunspots even visible now with the glare/fog?

There is already a "Ship Library" and a "Library.OXP" so that's confusing but anyway I think if something like Ship's Library is implemented it might be better to add the manual to the Options screen or even perhaps the F2 screen rather than cluttering up the F4 screen, but then what about the rest of the OXP that could allow other "books" to be displayed? Sadly no one seems to have taken advantage of this to create any books other than the one cim put out after releasing the OXP, but it would be a shame to lose it.

I should get at least 50% of market price for a used laser, but not more than 75% I think.

Equipment 'Sell Item' Color I think is fine.

Rather than Auto-prime equipment I think Mapping keys/buttons to OXP equipment may well be the answer to this.

The rest, I think, are sensible enough and I'd support them, although, I don't know if the Maintenance tuneup is really needed.

I wonder too;

Gallery : can show newcomers all ''encounterable'' entities

&

Station dock control

I can't say I'd support Gallery, I think its just too much as it is the only OXP that I have ever installed that caused any real graphics related issues and that was on a mid level gaming rig built in 2015 or so, my poor laptop would lock up for sure.

I feel Station dock control creates a specific scenario of an authoritarian state where commanders are under constant surveillance and that some of that information is available to anyone, not something I am interested in.

I am not saying these are not fine OXPs, but I don't think that everyone might want them and I feel one of the best features of Oolite is the ability the player has to customize the game.

Just to confirm - you'd chop down the selection to these

cim:
System Features Rings
System Features Sunspots
Ship's Library

phkb:
Solar Flares
Planet Forests and Oceans (stays in as not high-spec)
Remove Individual Pylon (if we charge for selling pylons, should we not charge for removing lasers?)
Equipment 'Sell Item' Color
Auto-prime equipment
'No Market' Notification
MaintenanceTuneUp

redspear:
Paddling Pool tied in with the Easy Start option on the gallame menu (and start at Lave, not Zaonce).

norby:
LogEvents

Added by cbr:
Gallery
Station Dock Control




Thank you for a detailed response!

Notes:
*Unsure whether you are pro- or anti- Remove Individual Pylons - and agree with you about lasers. But if you are just moving your laser to another mount...

*It's not that Maintenance tune up is really needed (unless you do long missions), but rather that it is realistic (and thus, for me at least, immersive).

*Part of the point in adding things in is the difficulty inherent in mastering a list of 700+ oxz's in the in-game Expansions Manager and the additional 400+ oxp's outside it.
To emphasise this point, there are another 3 books available as oxz's on the Expansions Manager for Ship's Library, and a fourth .oxp: Supplementary Volumes. There are too many of these bally things to master them all....

[Cody]

... but I don't think that everyone might want them...

This!

[Switeck]

*Part of the point in adding things in is the difficulty inherent in mastering a list of 700+ oxz's in the in-game Expansions Manager and the additional 400+ oxp's outside it.
To emphasise this point, there are another 3 books available as oxz's on the Expansions Manager for Ship's Library, and a fourth .oxp: Supplementary Volumes. There are too many of these bally things to master them all....

There's features that have been added to Oolite by OXPs and/or OXZs...and I cannot remember which ones added those features to test them out!

Case in point right now is something I kinda feel should be part of the core Vanilla game -- freighters with escorts leaving the main station should at least sometimes announce that they're about to jump (creating a wormhole for the escorts to follow through on)...and where they are jumping to.
I'm sure I've seen an OXP or OXZ that does that via a manifest list of ships to the main station, but I cannot remember what it was...maybe something cim made?

I cannot remotely keep track of all the outright conflicts, partial but possibly unwanted interactions, and dependencies of many OXZs that I can only say "Good luck!" to anyone wanting to install 100+ random OXZs.
For instance -- Background Set disrupts my auto-jumping OXPs, and probably similar ones (such as LInk7, 1wayticket2Oresrati, Thargoid Witchspace Drive) by how it changes the jump animations.

[cbr]

All in all it is a/the luxury of choice...

[Cholmondely]

... but I don't think that everyone might want them...

This!

You would even hold "this" for Planet Forests and Oceans & for No Market Notification? Why?

[Cody]

Why? Because there will never be a consensus of what should be added to the vanilla game. Of the OXPs in your list, only one is in my game, and that may not be permanent. The one OXP I'd definitely add to the game is RandomShipNames, but not everyone wants it.

[montana05]

Everybody is not the question here, it's what the majority wants. Random ship names should be included (maybe a bit extended), and planets forests and oceans just corrects bugs from the core, so yes it should be in.

[Cody]

... it's what the majority wants.

I ain't so sure about that, amigo!

[montana05]

... it's what the majority wants.

I ain't so sure about that, amigo!

I am aware of that Cody, however time will tell.

[Redspear]

... it's what the majority wants.

I ain't so sure about that, amigo!

I am aware of that Cody, however time will tell.

Therefore whatever changes be decided upon it would likely be wise that they be both

• minimal
• reversible

So the only few OXPs/OXZs that really need to be included are:

phkb:
Equipment 'Sell Item' Color
'No Market' Notification

redspear:
Paddling Pool tied in with the Easy Start option on the gallame menu (and start at Lave, not Zaonce).

These 3 items serve to make the game easier to play and understand.

Something like this might be along the right lines although personally I'd swap my own oxp with phkb's population control (?) - which is a more complex but (conceptually at least) better solution to the 'problem'.

You would even hold "this" for Planet Forests and Oceans & for No Market Notification? Why?

Although the above wasn't addressed at me...
The first sounds like a great, cast-iron candidate for inclusion, until you consider that installing povray planets or similar renders it irrelevant. It would (presumably) be extremely low cost however.

As for the latter, it's an alternative way of displaying the same information, right? Personally I like the idea but it's barely noticeable by my understanding.

All in all it is a/the luxury of choice...

Indeed, so if we're having a 'starter set' then why should we be restricted to only one?

• System features (rings, sunspots, cinematic skies)
• Station convenience (sell item colour, no market notification)
• Safer systems (population control/paddling pool)
• Oxp control (oxp config or similar)
• Government flavour (commies etc)

Be careful to avoid expanding (especially broadening) each category unnecessarily and have each be tweakable via 'oxp control' so that any or all of the components can be activated/deactivated.

A category of 'ships' for example might seem logical but would be a mess (glorious or otherwise) of inconsistent design choices.

My opinion:
Keep it simple, don't remove choice.

I think it's very easy to lose sight of both of those things but we're not always helping someone by recommending a straightjacket, however well-fitting it might appear.

[Switeck]

Currently, the in-game OXZ manager is pretty good for downloading new OXZs...but not so good for removing them.
And perhaps even less good for finding conflicts.

But manually removing OXZs can be encouraged for anyone who doesn't like the default setup, at least until the in-game OXZ manager is improved.

[phkb]

And perhaps even less good for finding conflicts.

The EM will only ever be as good as the OXP authors commitment to flagging conflicts in their manifests when they create the OXP entry.

[Switeck]

And perhaps even less good for finding conflicts.

The EM will only ever be as good as the OXP authors commitment to flagging conflicts in their manifests when they create the OXP entry.

I understand...it's an almost impossible request, as I'm not even aware of all the conflicts my own OXPs cause.

My other probably more pertinent point was the EM is "not so good for removing them."
Is there even an option to remove OXZs in the EM?