Law: Legal Consequences

[Cholmondely]

What are the in-game legal consequences of the following scenarios:

I murder a clean escape-pod?
I murder one of Montana's clean spacemen in a spacesuit?
I destroy a clean ship after the crew jumped?
My turrets damage a clean ship by accident?

And if the vanilla game ignores any of these, do any of our OXP's cover them instead?

In-game Context.
Everything done is recorded photographically. Hence the ability of the Elite Federation to award Elite Ratings.
But, it seems that these cameras are not under GalCop's control - hence the ability to commit mayhem with legal impunity when there are no police present to record it.

Edited to add: And there is also of course the question of jurisdiction: what falls under GalCop law, what falls under the law of the local system and what falls under the law of the damaged party's system or the damager's system.

References:
*Elite Federation
*Elite Ratings
*Law contains KZ9999's synopsis of the legal system. To my untrained eye, it seems to fudge the issue.
*OoliteRS:

[Milo]

I murder a clean escape-pod?
I murder one of Montana's clean spacemen in a spacesuit?
I destroy a clean ship after the crew jumped?
My turrets damage a clean ship by accident?

If we number those 1-4, I think (untested):

1. Considered a crime (an escape pod is technically a piloted ship)
2. Not sure, probably a crime
3. Not a crime - a derelict ship without crew is just space litter from a legal perspective
4. Considered a crime - you are responsible for the actions of your turrets (and your missiles)

[montana05]

I murder a clean escape-pod?
I murder one of Montana's clean spacemen in a spacesuit?
I destroy a clean ship after the crew jumped?
My turrets damage a clean ship by accident?

If we number those 1-4, I think (untested):

2. Not sure, probably a crime

Same handling as an escape pod and therefore a crime.

[Cody]

I presume ramming is still perfectly legal?

[Cmdr James]

Remember that this is all also in the context of who saw what. Although some of these are punishable whether or not you *are* punished depends if it was seen.

There is no such thing as an offender crime or a fugitive crime but rather each crime that gets witnessed draws a bounty and depending how big your accumulated bounty is you will either be an offender or a fugitive.

Consider also that there are (or at least were) checks in the code for some special cases for example police accidentally shooting police will not incur a bounty.

[Cholmondely]

So where are you "seen"?

Inside the aegis of the main orbital station?

In sight (c.12,000 cavezzi) of a GalCop auxiliary station?

In sight of a police vehicle?

In sight of a local system police vehicle? (Commissar Limousine, Military Ray, NeuroPol's Ray Mk.I, Imperial Censor, Junta Enforcer etc)

In sight of the Galactic Navy (station/vehicle)?

[Cody]

I didn't do it! Nobody saw me do it! You can't prove anything!

[Cmdr James]

So where are you "seen"?

Are you asking how its coded or are you asking from an in universe perspective?

I think that "seen" means in scanner range of anyone with a police class or the aegis of the station. But I dont remember if its the criminal, their victim or both that have to be within range. I believe its the criminal rather than the victim, but Im not sure.

In sight (c.12,000 cavezzi) of a GalCop auxiliary station?

Depends on the OXP.

In sight of the Galactic Navy (station/vehicle)?

Depends on the OXP.

In sight of a local system police vehicle? (Commissar Limousine, Military Ray, NeuroPol's Ray Mk.I, Imperial Censor, Junta Enforcer etc)

Depends on the OXP.

In the core game its pretty simple, if a viper or a station sees you, you get a bounty on your head. Also exporting banned goods from a station (presumably this is "seen" by the station). But for navy, other dockables etc its all pretty much down to whatever the OXP decided to do.

[Cholmondely]

So where are you "seen"?

Are you asking how its coded or are you asking from an in universe perspective?

I think that "seen" means in scanner range of anyone with a police class or the aegis of the station. But I dont remember if its the criminal, their victim or both that have to be within range. I believe its the criminal rather than the victim, but Im not sure.

In sight (c.12,000 cavezzi) of a GalCop auxiliary station?

Depends on the OXP.

In sight of the Galactic Navy (station/vehicle)?

Depends on the OXP.

In sight of a local system police vehicle? (Commissar Limousine, Military Ray, NeuroPol's Ray Mk.I, Imperial Censor, Junta Enforcer etc)

Depends on the OXP.

In the core game its pretty simple, if a viper or a station sees you, you get a bounty on your head. Also exporting banned goods from a station (presumably this is "seen" by the station). But for navy, other dockables etc its all pretty much down to whatever the OXP decided to do.

Ummm...

So what is the situation with being in sight of a GalCop auxiliary station? Is it actually meaningful from a legal perspective, or not? A Sothis, say?

Does the OXP have to be "legally programmed" to recognise and categorise misdemeanors, or does merely labelling Sothis as a GalCop affiliate do the trick?

And, which OXP's do what as far as any of this is concerned? Any ideas?

Will this be Littlebear's next magnum opus?
His oolite.oxp.Littlebear.Lexicus_Galacticus_Superbus.oxp or oolite.oxp.Littlebear.Haerent_complex_ Iuris_Confusio.oxp creating legal issues right, left and centre, with options of how efficient GalCop is, options on how infrequently the lobstoid judges smile, options on issues of jurisdiction and options of how one pays one's legal bills (the Order of the Black Monks of Saint Herod beckons...). Will there be options for organising jail-breaks from the Estiri court house, or the ice-prison on Edorte? Will we finally have an oxp fully worthy of cag's Station Options?

[Cmdr James]

Ummm...

So what is the situation with being in sight of a GalCop auxiliary station? Is it actually meaningful from a legal perspective, or not? A Sothis, say?

Does the OXP have to be "legally programmed" to recognise and categorise misdemeanors, or does merely labelling Sothis as a GalCop affiliate do the trick?

Thats exactly the thing. You have to look at each oxp individually and see what it does.

[Cholmondely]

Ummm...

So what is the situation with being in sight of a GalCop auxiliary station? Is it actually meaningful from a legal perspective, or not? A Sothis, say?

Does the OXP have to be "legally programmed" to recognise and categorise misdemeanors, or does merely labelling Sothis as a GalCop affiliate do the trick?

That's exactly the thing. You have to look at each oxp individually and see what it does.

Fair enough. But I'm not a computer programmer. The ability to generate copious quantities of obfuscatory polysyllabic nomenclature in no way signifies comprehension of the mysteries of semi-colonic parantheses.

What should I be looking for?

And: what is the significance of vanilla-coded station allegiance in this area? Will a GalCop-aligned Sothis-station register crimes committed within 25 kuː ʊm? Or does one need to be witnessed by a police viper?

[montana05]

What should I be looking for?

Not that easy, if a ship has

Code: Select all

"scan_class" = "CLASS_POLICE";

and a standard police AI it will act like any viper in the core-game. If there is a ship-script or a customized AI its possible that it will behave slightly to very different from the GalCop ships.

[Cmdr James]

Fair enough. But I'm not a computer programmer. The ability to generate copious quantities of obfuscatory polysyllabic nomenclature in no way signifies comprehension of the mysteries of semi-colonic parantheses.

What should I be looking for?

And: what is the significance of vanilla-coded station allegiance in this area? Will a GalCop-aligned Sothis-station register crimes committed within 25 kuː ʊm? Or does one need to be witnessed by a police viper?

I appreciate your frustration, it comes down to at least two things.

The game itself assigns bounty in the cases discussed, either something identified as police (at least vipers but potentially other vehicles if they are set to be police) or the station (anything that isnt the main station, as far as the game itself is concerned is something quite different). So anything from an OXP that marks a ship as police, as described by montana05 below, will get the standard police behaviour including assigning bounty. Any OXP main station, provided it is actually the main station, will similarly act as such. Additional stations or other dockables will as standard out of the box not have an aegis and not "see" crimes.

Second is the ability for a script to manipulate the bounty directly. This could be setting an increased bounty for a new crime, for example one could create a wildlife oxp that adds a bounty for anyone who shoots an animal. Or it could be reducing or setting the bounty to zero, for example there is I believe an OXP that will swap out the ship transponder (waving arms and so on) and so set the bounty to zero because your ship appears to be one other than that which it is.

And therein lies the complexity, who knows where in the brains of an OXP lies burried a bit of magic which tinkers with the bounty? Other than reading it all yourself, or of course using some kind of search tool to do it for you there is no real way to know. And what exactly one would search for isnt 100% clear to me. I suspect you would find it by searching every .js file for the text bounty but I cannot guarantee that, Ive never been an OXP developer even though I have tinkered with the innards of oolite itself.

[Cholmondely]

Fair enough. But I'm not a computer programmer. The ability to generate copious quantities of obfuscatory polysyllabic nomenclature in no way signifies comprehension of the mysteries of semi-colonic parantheses.

What should I be looking for?

And: what is the significance of vanilla-coded station allegiance in this area? Will a GalCop-aligned Sothis-station register crimes committed within 25 kuː ʊm? Or does one need to be witnessed by a police viper?

I appreciate your frustration, it comes down to at least two things.

The game itself assigns bounty in the cases discussed, either something identified as police (at least vipers but potentially other vehicles if they are set to be police) or the station (anything that isnt the main station, as far as the game itself is concerned is something quite different). So anything from an OXP that marks a ship as police, as described by montana05 below, will get the standard police behaviour including assigning bounty. Any OXP main station, provided it is actually the main station, will similarly act as such. Additional stations or other dockables will as standard out of the box not have an aegis and not "see" crimes.

Second is the ability for a script to manipulate the bounty directly. This could be setting an increased bounty for a new crime, for example one could create a wildlife oxp that adds a bounty for anyone who shoots an animal. Or it could be reducing or setting the bounty to zero, for example there is I believe an OXP that will swap out the ship transponder (waving arms and so on) and so set the bounty to zero because your ship appears to be one other than that which it is.

And therein lies the complexity, who knows where in the brains of an OXP lies burried a bit of magic which tinkers with the bounty? Other than reading it all yourself, or of course using some kind of search tool to do it for you there is no real way to know. And what exactly one would search for isnt 100% clear to me. I suspect you would find it by searching every .js file for the text bounty but I cannot guarantee that, Ive never been an OXP developer even though I have tinkered with the innards of oolite itself.

Very helpful, thank you!

So I can now draw some conclusions.

The Main orbital system station has a much closer relationship with GalCop than other GalCop aligned stations do. That's why they have a meaningful aegis and report to GalCop on what happens within it.

Other system stations don't. Even if they are aligned with GalCop, the relationship is not sufficiently tight for them to do this. The fact that they are aligned with GalCop does not mean that they are paid for by GalCop, and thus they have this looser relationship.

This also applies to Galactic Navy command stations, despite that fact that their ships do! I'm not sure that this makes much sense. Maybe a Galactic Navy override could address the issue. Either the Navy is too important to bother with such minutiae (and the ships should ignore it too unless there is a massive bounty involved), or the stations should have a similar aegis to the main orbital system.

I don't have enough of a feel for the ship.oxp possibilities to draw similar conclusions there.

[Cody]

... the Navy is too important to bother with such minutiae (and the ships should ignore it too unless there is a massive bounty involved)

This is how it should be!