Nerdy Analysis For Fun (NAFF)

[Redspear]

As premiered here, trawling the Elite manual and ignoring ship dimensions leads to some interesting observatons. At least, if the question is how big might the ships be?

Without wishing to repeat myself too much, if you might consider this reworking of my table from the other thread...



By adding TC, crew number, listed armament types (and plus 2 for a hyperdrive, I have created a simple formula from which to calculate a 'crude size' for each ship. Note that this does not represent the sizing of ships particularly closely based on their recorded dimensions  Ship size chart

There are a few changes to the raw data (marked in red), the reasons for which are explained in the post linked above and relate to primary sources (Elite manual and Ian Bell's notes from 1984).

To kick things off here, I'd like to draw your attention the the CF column.
CF stands for 'Curve Factor', a measure of manoeuvrability from the elite manual.

Looking at the chart, with a few exceptions, we can see an apparently logical small ships with high agility and large ships with low agilty. But what about those exceptions?

Well one is the thargoid so that might make sense that it should be an odd one out.
The cobra mk III was the only player ship in Elite, so player advantage (and indeed fun) might be a simple explanation there.
But what about the asp and the adder? Here totally outclassed by the other ship in their size class, the gecko.

What do the adder and the asp have that the gecko doesn't? A hyperdrive.
Factor that in and suddenly it makes 'sense' (TM)

Potentially lots more to discuss here but I'll leave it at that for now.

[Cholmondely]

Hmmm... looking at the size chart, surely there should be a limit on how many 36m Thargons a 65m Cobra can scoop? Can they even fit in the fuel/cargo scoops?

...and regarding escape pods, it would seem impossible for Worms, Sidewinders, Kraits & Mambas to have them, and probably ditto for Geckos, Asps & Adders - they would presumably have to rely on Montana05's space suits.

[cbr]

Somehow I always thought of the adder as one of the smaller ships.
Current single pilot jetfighters are almost as big as the smaller businessjets.
Comparisons are NAFF too.

[Cody]

NPC Adder holds 5TC, doesn't it?

[Redspear]

NPC Adder holds 5TC, doesn't it?

That's only in oolite mate (relevant of course but not what the above values are representative of).

Likewise, oolite doesn't generally specify crew numbers (as it might make things a bit confusing should the player decide to trade in the mk III for a python).

So if I think that sizes etc. are questionable then could there be another way to 'translate' from the original sources (yep) and might it present a significant improvement (er... jury's still out)?

Just for fun and maybe oxp, not a campaign to tear up the wiki or similar.

[Redspear]

Somehow I always thought of the adder as one of the smaller ships.

The chart above would appear to agree with you. There's only one ship category smaller, with none of it's occupants having either a hyperdrive or more than half the cargo capacity of the adder.

Current single pilot jetfighters are almost as big as the smaller businessjets.

If 1TC of hold space could potentially house 10 passengers (see above link to the thread I think you're familiar with) then a 'small' adder could house 20, plus a missile, laser and hyperdrive.

Comparisons are NAFF too.

There are lots of ways to be naff, I try not to limit myself

[Redspear]

Sorry, missed this one...

Hmmm... looking at the size chart, surely there should be a limit on how many 36m Thargons a 65m Cobra can scoop? Can they even fit in the fuel/cargo scoops?

Well thargons aren't on the list because their specifications aren't in the elite manual. Therefore you're 36m reference is presumably taken directly from oolite (the fact it's in metres alone suggests this).
I did address this problem within the rescaling thread but if we were to add it to this table then what is the evidence from elite primary sources?

I scooped thargon = 1TC alien items.
Therefore each thargon would be the size of a cargo cannister.
Sound too challenging to fight them?
Look at the speed of the thargoid as recorded in the elite manual (listed above) - you could outrun it... in an adder...

...and regarding escape pods, it would seem impossible for Worms, Sidewinders, Kraits & Mambas to have them, and probably ditto for Geckos, Asps & Adders - they would presumably have to rely on Montana05's space suits.

Why? They take up 1TC on the chart and the pilot takes up 1TC within each of those craft despite the assumption that 1TC actually has room for 10 people, based on the following:

TRANSPORTER
The Lakon Spaceways MC15 QuikTransport Shuttle is the most commonly encountered intermediate range shuttle, with a range of 0.1LY and a full HiGrav Loading facility. It can carry up to 100 passengers, and has a cargo capacity of 10 tonnes undefined bulk.

and:

VIPER (POLICE SHIP)
Small, highly maneuverable short range "hunter-killer", the Viper was specifically designed for GalCop Space Policing purposes by Faulcon Manspace and are built under licence on all Medium Tech worlds. The Viper is a single pilot craft, but can carry up to ten humanoid passengers. It has no cargo space

whilst at the very least having room for 1:

Slaves are measured by the tonne in galactic trading. This may seem a little strange, but it includes the cryogenic suspension system necessary to keep them alive during space travel.

Then why can't the escape pod be contained within the cockpit and include the pilot's seat?
Is there an easier way to achieve (or justify) near instant evacuation?

[Cholmondely]

The crew of 12 on the FdL is intriguing: butler, valet, cooks, footmen, chambermaids, parlourmaids, stillroom maids, pages etc, one presumes. So what is going on when the bounty hunters take one over? Bags of free space for cargo canisters? Or just empty disused servant's quarters gathering dust and mildew?

[Cody]

It was meant to be 5TC but a coffee stain made it look like 2TC.

[Cholmondely]

Sorry, missed this one...

Hmmm... looking at the size chart, surely there should be a limit on how many 36m Thargons a 65m Cobra can scoop? Can they even fit in the fuel/cargo scoops?

Well thargons aren't on the list because their specifications aren't in the elite manual. Therefore you're 36m reference is presumably taken directly from oolite (the fact it's in metres alone suggests this).

I took it from the Oolite size chart in your link. I was agreeing that the Oolite sizes are squiffy and that your decision to return to Elite sources made sense.

[Redspear]

The crew of 12 on the FdL is intriguing: butler, valet, cooks, footmen, chambermaids, parlourmaids, stillroom maids, pages etc, one presumes. So what is going on when the bounty hunters take one over? Bags of free space for cargo canisters? Or just empty disused servant's quarters gathering dust and mildew?

I dunno. Groupies maybe? Ransomed VIPs? Batchelor(/singleton) pad par excellence?

It was meant to be 5TC but a coffee stain made it look like 2TC.

This coffee stuff is a damn nuisance...

I took it from the Oolite size chart in your link. I was agreeing that the Oolite sizes are squiffy and that your decision to return to Elite sources made sense.

And I accidentally used the wrong your/you're...
Apologies if I misunderstood.

[Cholmondely]

VIPER (POLICE SHIP)
Small, highly maneuverable short range "hunter-killer", the Viper was specifically designed for GalCop Space Policing purposes by Faulcon Manspace and are built under licence on all Medium Tech worlds. The Viper is a single pilot craft, but can carry up to ten humanoid passengers. It has no cargo space

Interesting. A hunter-killer with up to ten humanoid passengers. Suggests to me that it also acts as a transport for police-oids or holds prisoners. In other words, not just a hunter-killer, but more multi-purpose for more general system policing.

[Cholmondely]

It was meant to be 5TC but a coffee stain made it look like 2TC.

This coffee stuff is a damn nuisance...
[/quote]

Those poor Cambridge/Fenland Polytechnic students. Too cheap to manage a better coffee... What can one expect?

[Redspear]

Interesting. A hunter-killer with up to ten humanoid passengers. Suggests to me that it also acts as a transport for police-oids or holds prisoners. In other words, not just a hunter-killer, but more multi-purpose for more general system policing.

If you look at the chart above then the only reason it has a crude size of 1 larger than the sidewinder or worm is on account of this ability.
10 passengers = 1TC.

So looking at my adjusted mamba and krait, they'd be just big enough to function as small military drop ships, each capable of holding a squad of 10 soldiers.

Those poor Cambridge/Fenland Polytechnic students. Too cheap to manage a better coffee... What can one expect?

[Cholmondely]

Umm... you seem to be concentrating on the ship size as purely a function of crew/passengers & cargo. I would have thought that fast engines, luxurious FdL interiors, Asp militaristic whatnots etc would all have a part to play too. Quirium is surely dangerous stuff and a quirium engine needs a lot of protection built in to stop it just exploding at whim.

A size 3 Worm of which 1 of the sizes is the Escape Pod/cockpit/pilot seems to me a tad unlikely as a viable spaceship. I'd expect there to be less of a living quarters/cockpit and more of a spaceship, if I'm explaining myself with any clarity. And a couple of Montana05's spacesuits instead.