Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by user2357 »

Cholmondely wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:38 am
Might it make more sense to come out with suggested lists of .oxps for the various schools which could be combined with appropriate textual backstories as to how each variant developed in the way it did. It seems highly unlikely that one can come up with a user-fits-all solution - and if one did, it would be shattered by the next addition to the corpus. And, with such a solution being of necessity highly complex, it is unlikely that most of those adding to the corpus would bother to master it fully.
This is indeed the final goal which I would like to see actualised, before I level up to the next life. :wink:
Cholmondely wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:38 am
One of the important ideas in 1950's historiography was that of colligation (WH Walsh): which historical facts does one include when one is trying to ratiocinate about history - and which does one just ignore! The use of strict colligatory criteria by adherents of our various schools would seem to be the only way of providing rigorous solutions to the glorious mess.
"[W]hich historical facts does one include [...] - and which does one JUST IGNORE!?!" ... :shock: :evil: SACRILEGE!!

One does NOT - EVER! - 'just ignore' historical FACTS!

OK. I'm over-reacting. :lol:

IMHO, facts, as such, should all at least be mentioned, at least in some kind of explanation as to the reason(s) why they will be "ignored". ...and, as such, they will then actually not be ignored, because they will be mentioned. ...in an explanation. ...as to why they will be "ignored"... :roll: This is a "strict colligatory criterium" which I would very strongly support and propagate, if it is not part of standard, conventional, colligatory practices already. ...which it should be! :lol:
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by user2357 »

Redspear wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:55 pm
If our starting point is not real life science then there is no problem - we're free to imagine alternate timelines, realities and paradoxes interacting in any way we choose. We would be free from (among other things) scientific method.
Redspear wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:55 pm
Instead of the RL/IU science distinction, how about within our current understanding and beyond our current understanding?
The difference might appear to be subtle but I think it's an important one.
As far as Xlite is concerned, I am of the opinion that our starting point should actually be real-life science, since the original "Space Trader's Flight Training Manual", "Elite: The Dark Wheel" (both original 1984 Elite) and "Imprint" (1991 PC Elite Plus) all refer repeatedly to "Old Earth" in one or another form or flavour. The reference to that most prominent of real-life locations locks it all down in real life. ...for me, at least.

However, some IU phenomena do not agree with RL, and those discrepancies, paradoxes and contradictions I would like to see explained - consistently - in terms of IU lore of some kind, even if those explanations have to be newly created. "Beyond our current understanding" is fine with me, but consistency within authentically-established, original lore is paramount, IMHO.

So, what I propose, is: an attempt at establishing consistent lore, rooted in real-life science, but reaching "beyond our current understanding" if necessary in order to maintain IU consistency. Whether this tesseraction of the hypersphere is possible, or not, I do not know, and I do not care. It is a hobby - like searching for Raxxla - which I enjoy tremendously, and, if I am not successful in this lifetime, I will at least die trying to fulfil this goal, if it's the last thing I do... - till death does me part! ...and beyond! ...if nothing else more accessible and entertaining comes along. :lol:

*
Redspear wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:55 pm
History is bunk... or at least it can be. When researching anything, one source is like one experiment in science: insufficient to draw reliable conclusions from. If you imagine bias, ignorance and the like then all accounts can be 'true' to a degree. Contradictions are more problematic of course but they can sometimes prove to be the most interesting points.
I agree. However, if all possible and available sources have been exhaustively represented and included in establishing iron-clad IU lore consistency, at least within itself, then the best picture of IU history might be presented, and built upon - consistently (there's that word again) - by future lore creations, be they OXPs or Oofiction or stage musicals or whatever else the cOommunity can come up with.
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by Redspear »

user2357 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:10 am
So, what I propose, is: an attempt at establishing consistent lore, rooted in real-life science, but reaching "beyond our current understanding" if necessary in order to maintain IU consistency.
So you have alternate fiction threads that you wish to consolidate into one consistent whole representing a possible realistic future?

This is difficult because (amongst other things):
  • These alternate threads sometimes ignore or contradict each other.
  • They demonstrate questionable scientific 'laws' or applications thereof.
  • Oxp interaction and creation is effectively sub-threading game 'lore'
So these multiple threads play out as multiple realities. As well as your problem, could that not be your solution?

Maybe a wormhole actually leads to another reality, near identical to the last. Consider that the player seldom lingers before making another hyperspace jump in this game so the historical/lore differences needn't be obvious to them. Too radical? Maybe that only happens when you make a 'galactic' hyperspace.

So the player would forever be jumping between several similar but none the less divergent realities. Maybe the connection to the one that contains Earth has been 'lost'.

With regards to galaxies in particular it's not difficult to imagine how this could be incorporated into oxps. Only available / applicable in galactic chart 1 for example.

Not consistent in the way you imagined? Well that's your problem isn't it?
user2357 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:18 am
IMHO, facts, as such, should all at least be mentioned, at least in some kind of explanation as to the reason(s) why they will be "ignored". ...and, as such, they will then actually not be ignored, because they will be mentioned. ...in an explanation. ...as to why they will be "ignored"... :roll: This is a "strict colligatory criterium" which I would very strongly support and propagate, if it is not part of standard, conventional, colligatory practices already. ...which it should be! :lol:
I think I may have offered a possible "explanation" for 'ignoring facts'. And if it's a bit too inconsistent for your tastes then you might wish to consider (or perhaps clarify) how one can be consistent with regards to lore while 'ignoring' facts.
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by user2357 »

Commander Redspear... I like your ideas... very much so, sir. I like'em a lot! :D
Redspear wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:41 am
So you have alternate fiction threads that you wish to consolidate into one consistent whole representing a possible realistic future?
Exactly, sir! Exactly!
Redspear wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:41 am
This is difficult because (amongst other things):
  • These alternate threads sometimes ignore or contradict each other.
  • They demonstrate questionable scientific 'laws' or applications thereof.
  • Oxp interaction and creation is effectively sub-threading game 'lore'
So these multiple threads play out as multiple realities. As well as your problem, could that not be your solution?
Exactly, sir! Exactly! ...or, at least, I would hope that the problem might also actually, and very subtly, provide the very solution, indeed!

The fun is just exactly in sorting out all those contradictions between the alternative threads in an attempt to find that subtle Grand unified Solution that resolves the contradictions against which we all had always been staring ourselves blind. Questionable scientific 'laws' or applications thereof... can perhaps all be handwaved away five why-levels deep, just enough to suspend some disbelief for most, most of the time, hopefully. OXP subthreading... we'll work on that. We'll work on that... :wink:
Redspear wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:41 am
Maybe a wormhole actually leads to another reality, near identical to the last. Consider that the player seldom lingers before making another hyperspace jump in this game so the historical/lore differences needn't be obvious to them. Too radical? Maybe that only happens when you make a 'galactic' hyperspace.
Perhaps... Although I'm not a great fan of mixing wormhole theory with hyperspace theory (and that witchspace thing is just a whole lot of IU old wives' superstition due to general, common, popular IU ignorance of IU scientific facts!), I'm willing to roll with wormholes as a working effort, at the moment...

Much appreciating your contributions, Commander Redspear! Much, indeed! Keep 'em comin'! :D
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by user2357 »

Cholmondely wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:26 am
I've not had a chance to peruse it yet.

But are there any views on the canonicity of Brian Phillip's Elite the musical on Ian Bell's website (music by his brother, Aidan Bell)?

http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/musical/book.htm
Dear Commander Cholmondeley

I have listened to 'Elite[:] The Musical' many yonks ago. ...all the way through. ...while following along reading the lyrics. ...Cringe much! Much cringe, indeed. The yonkier ago, the happier I am. I hope I will never be forced to endure the torture again, thank you. It reminds me of that time we hitched a ride on that Vogon ship, and they caught us, and read us some of their poetry, before they airlocked us... but I digress.

However, I have nevertheless spent the day to reread the book and *some* of the lyrics in an attempt to present my analysis for your perusal.

So, here we go...

*

Regarding any references to so-called 'GalCops'...

‘GalCop’ first appears in the ‘Space Trader’s Flight Training Manual’, p. 6, par. 4, where it refers to some organisation associated with the ‘Lave Authorities’, probably that of the ‘Galactic Co-operative of Worlds’ mentioned on p. 5.

Page 43, par. 1, has ‘galCop’, but, compared to all the other 'GalCop'-s within the text, that is clearly a typo, and the context remains consistent with that which had been established previously.

‘Imprint’, p. i6, ch. 2, par. 1 (for example): ‘[...] he had made his way towards GalCop licensing.’ The context of the quote (obtaining a pilot’s license) also refers to an organisation.

‘The Virtuous Misfortune’, p. 15, towards the bottom: ‘In the distance, a flight of four ships headed roughly in our direction – tagged as “GalCop”.’ This quote might be misinterpreted as indicating that the Police Vipers were known as ‘GalCops’. However, considering all other references, that is indeed a misinterpretation, since it might rather be better interpreted as meaning that the approaching Galactic Co-operative Police Vipers were tagged as belonging to the GalCop organisation.

‘GalCop’ is not a job title for any kind of cop or other law enforcement officer. Hijacking and bastardising of terminology merely facilitates confusion through ambiguity, and cannot contribute constructively to the clarification of current canon.

There is also no ‘CORPORATE STATES POLICE FEDERATION’. Each stellar system is independent of any other, as evinced by the fact that criminal records do not carry much weight much beyond the limits of the local system. Also, the corporate states do not have a different police federation that is separate from those in all the other stellar systems in GalCop Space.

‘Elite: The Dark Wheel’, p. 23, par. 5: ‘"Whatever happens now," Elyssia said as they took positions at the bridge consoles, "You’re going to get an 'offender' status tag. But Rafe thinks that[,] if you respect [Spacetrader Henry Bell’s mummified] body[,] they’ll just post [the criminal charge here] at Tionisla itself. Destroy the body[,] and they’ll probably notify most worlds in the vicinity [...]."'

*

General observations regarding character descriptions...

The character Ash is described as ‘Half-humanoid-half amphiboid . .. human father, lizard mother.’ An amphibian and a lizard are from two different taxonomic classes: amphibia and reptilia. Also, the original referred to ‘frogs’ (vs. ‘amphib...’ of any kind), and also distinguished between ‘humanoids’ and ‘human (colonials)’. Besides, it’s ‘amphi-bi-oid’; not ‘amphi-boid’. (Crossing a human with another class of animal/organism might be possible in the 32nd century, though.)

Celandine... ‘Bargains with pirates on behalf of the planet LAVE.’ It is, however, not explained under whose authority she actually does this. Furthermore, her associate Bramble’s apparent unprofessional habit of ratting out her ‘clients’ does not seem conducive to smooth diplomatic relations between Lave and other planets and/or systems. It seems doubtful if she would carry any real authority within the official GalCop structures. Describing her as bargaining with pirates on behalf of the entire planet, therefore, seems to be at least somewhat questionable.

*

Scene inconsistencies...

Scene III: ‘They will attempt to track Cleavers by sifting around Anarchy planets; Maple to Onisqu and Hawthorn to Ara.’ Why go all the way to the other side of the chart, when there is Soinuste and Qudira within two jumps from their starting system of Engema? No logical explanation is even attempted!

Scene V: ‘[...] Celandine who bargains with pirates on behalf of the plant Raale.’ Her initial character description said, ‘Lave’.

*

Conclusion:

The writers of the ‘ELITE’ musical might ‘have taken the essence of the Elite game and woven from them a crime adventure story, basing characters, dialogue and place settings on the game,’ but that seems to be about all they did.

At least, Holdstock had read the ‘Elite Players’ Guide v.7’ (http://www.elitehomepage.org/playguide.htm) before writing the ‘Space Trader’s Flight Training Manual’, and, at least, he had tried to play the game, before writing ‘Elite: The Dark Wheel’. Braben or Bell had to hack the game so that he could survive, because, by his own admission, he was hopeless at it – but, at least, he tried.
(https://robertholdstock.com/articles/the-games-we-play/)

The only positive and possibly intriguing connection between ‘Elite[:] The Musical’ and original lore that I can find, seems to be implied in the subtlety of the title of the second last song in Scene XI, ‘Just a Game’, which might be oppositely relatable to ‘Elite: The Dark Wheel’, p. 6, par. 2: ‘Let’s be clear about trading. Trading between worlds is no game for a youngster with ideas of getting rich quick.’ Like the song’s title and the Dark Wheel quote carry opposite meanings with respect to each other, the substance of the song’s lyrics also bears no relevance to interstellar trading, though.

Other than the above-mentioned connection, the only other positive contribution made by ‘Elite[:] The Musical’, might be, apparently, the first ever Elite Theme, by Aidan Bell as arranged by Chris Abbott, and could perhaps be a candidate for an alternative to the Oolite Theme Music by NoSleep (2004), along with Saga’s ‘Will it be you? (Chapter Four)’.

https://through-the-interface.typepad.c ... -bell.html
‘Who came up with the name Elite?’

‘[Ian Bell] was fond of 'Black Starlit Grave' which was a song by a Canadian Rock band Saga [...]’

Actually, ‘black starlit grave’ were merely some lyrics from Saga's song ‘Will it be you? (Chapter Four)’ from their self-titled debut album from 1978.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_(band)#The_Chapters
https://youtu.be/dkwxdgo9p2E?t=947

See?... That’s what I call good, canonical (meta-)lore: it brings other good, canonical (meta-)lore things to mind – consistently, and without any unexplained contradictions – and then I digress again ever so blissfully...

To answer your question, Commander Cholmondeley, as far as I’m concerned, ‘Elite[:] The Musical’ does not really contribute anything significant to the written Xlite lore canon that hasn’t been done better by any other, more-legitimate fanlabour or official lore-sources. It's story, undulating and writhing as it might be, twisting rather cleverly in the tail, many layers deep, is just too local and disconnected from any other lore for it to make any significant contribution, IMHO. It could just as well have been written in any other universe, with little change to the story, and it would still be what it is.

‘Elite: The Dark Wheel’ (BBC Elite 1984) was the original.

‘Imprint’ (PC Elite 1991) was official.

‘The Virtuous Misfortune’ (Oolite 2006) was the first piece of Oofic about the crew of a Python-Class Cruiser, and had cameo appearances by Rafe Zetter and Henry Bell, establishing a deeper connection between them than just that which had merely been vaguely hinted at in ‘Elite: The Dark Wheel’, and establishing a connection between the two stories themselves. It also featured a reference to a certain cat on a big, dark and deserted ship, and some trumbles, not to mention how it opens up with a reference to the established IU lore of a hyperspace-misjump temporal displacement that then continues to explain consistently the connection between the Xlite and Frontier Universes... It is the quintessential, indispensable Oofic! Much of this story would have to be rewritten or lost if it were to be transposed to any other universe.

‘Elite: The Musical’... Nah. ...Not so much. It pales miserably in comparison. Much cringe! Except in name, and in family ties, it is actually just really not Elite enough to warrant inclusion as authentic canon. ...for me, at least.

I would be interested to read any other analyses and/or critiques of 'Elite[:] The Musical' in terms of its relationship to established lore.
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by Cholmondely »

user2357 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:29 pm
Cholmondely wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:26 am

But are there any views on the canonicity of Brian Phillip's Elite the musical on Ian Bell's website (music by his brother, Aidan Bell)?

http://www.iancgbell.clara.net/elite/musical/book.htm
Dear Commander Cholmondeley

I have listened to 'Elite[:] The Musical' many yonks ago. ...all the way through. ...while following along reading the lyrics. ...Cringe much!

‘Elite: The Musical’... Nah. ...Not so much. It pales miserably in comparison. Much cringe! Except in name, and in family ties, it is actually just really not Elite enough to warrant inclusion as authentic canon. ...for me, at least.

I would be interested to read any other analyses and/or critiques of 'Elite[:] The Musical' in terms of its relationship to established lore.
Revered and Reverent Commander User2357,

Since your criteria for the canon are broader than mine - and you feel it should be excluded - I will happily accept your judgement.

Next question

I've been tweaking away on the http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Lave page in the wiki. I've only just had a horrible thought ... is it really a Frontier/FFE page? I can't really tell, being quite ignorant of them. All I've really done so far is work away on the links. Could you please have a quick dekko and tell me what you think. The map is from Frontier/FFE.

There are, of course, a veritable plethora of pages on Lave - and on a bevy of relevant OXPs.

I was misled because the http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Tionisla page is so obviously Frontier/FFE, so I assumed that Lave was not. Assumptions!
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by Nite Owl »

user2357 wrote:
Each stellar system is independent of any other, as evinced by the fact that criminal records do not carry much weight much beyond the limits of the local system.
With that my one time contribution to this discussion can begin. user2357 please have a look at the OXZ BOUNTY SYSTEM which allows for crimes to be carried not only across systems but across Galactic Sectors. In the furtherance of this minor area of lore there are actually two entities known as G-A-L-C-O-P. There is "GalCop" as in the Galactic Cooperative of Planets whose influence on the homogeneity of the cooperative worlds may or may not be waning. There is also "Galcop" which is a colloquial term given to the police force that attempts to enforce the meager laws put forth by GalCop. The proof of the first supposition is in the Oolite code under ALLEGIANCE. When all else fails in an explanation of current Oolite lore look to the code. Do not get me wrong, fiction is all well and good but it remains just what its name states, fiction, as in not reality. Granted the whole thing is not reality in that it is just a game but if you are trying to construct a reality around a series of games then you have to look towards those things that can be stated as fact within that given construct. Code is what creates a game's reality. As to the second supposition of there being a police force known colloquially as Galcop (small c) that is a given within Oolite as measured by the purple ships that show up on your scanner.

Now as for tying the whole of this series of games into some sort of canon - Elite in all of its versions, the Frontier games, Oolite, Elite Dangerous, and whatever else might be out and about on the interwebs, it just is not possible. Each game, or versions of games, is its own universe created specifically for itself by the very code that creates it. As stated previously when in doubt as to what is canon and what is not canon look to the source that creates it. The various versions of Elite where all closely tied to one another but with some subtle and not so subtle differences. The Frontier games where closely tied to one another but varied greatly from their predecessors. Elite Dangerous varies greatly from either of the previous two due more to the advancement in home computer capabilities then to any sort of canonical motivations.

Then we come to the discussion of Oolite. As stated in my first paragraph, in the part about the Bounty System OXZ, we have a game, and a system within that game, that allows the user to create canon for themselves and others by manipulating the basis of that canon, the very code that creates it. If we accept the premise that the code is the canon then that canon cannot be easily defined for Oolite since it is in a constant state of flux. That flux is further exasperated by the fact that my Ooniverse might be so different from someone else's as to be a completely different experience. With all of this flexibility in the hands of OXZ creators and then the decisions of the players as to what they want their Ooniverse to be like it is difficult to peg down a specific canon for Oolite and say "This Is So".

So what to do about this? You can create for it. You can argue about it. You can just accept it. You can do whatever you like with it. Most of all you should just play it for the enjoyment that you want it be. That is the true beauty of Oolite. Given the ever expanding number of OXZs and the changes to the base code that do occur on a regular basis only the very basic principles of the game should be considered as canon. See my G-A-L-C-O-P examples in the first paragraph. It is doubtful that these will change in a future version of Oolite but even that is not written in stone. If your Oolite experience and enjoyment extends to creating canon for it then all the more power to you - do it. Just realize that due to the very structure of Oolite you are never going to be able to get a consensus on what exactly is or is not canon in Oolite unless you can specifically sight an example in the code that is unlikely to change. It must be stressed that "consensus" is the key word here. After all what is a "canon" if not a consensus among participants about something that means nothing.
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by stranger »

Nice comment, Nite Owl! I like your approach.
Hardcoded game mechanics is like laws of physics in real reality - it determines what you CAN do and what you CAN'T do.
So if you have game sequel with radically rewritten game mechanics it will be separate universe with it's own fundamental rules despite formal resemblance with original game in some aspects. You have no any need to construct consistent meta-lore for unrelated universes.
But OXP modding is like Multiversum indeed. Having unique OXP set you'll live in unique game reality, but in all these game realities you'll be limited by the same hardcoded rules.
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by Cholmondely »

Was there any other Classic Elite fiction other than The Dark Wheel & Imprint?
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by stranger »

Cholmondely wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:54 pm
Was there any other Classic Elite fiction other than The Dark Wheel & Imprint?
Aftermath
Simon Challands

Augury
James 'Porphyre' Grahn

Awakenings
James Grahn

Calm and Chaos
Simon Challands

Falling Angels
Robert Pfeifer

Imperialistic Tendencies
James 'Porphyre' Grahn

The Price of the Elite
Simon Challands

Remlocks and Quicklocks
Mack Winston

Shadow of a Snake
Robert Pfeifer
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by Cholmondely »

Excellent! Thank you!

I could only find Challands.

Not any of the others - even Mack Winston whom I guess is really Dylan Smith - and the story is not on the backend of our wiki website in his Frontier pages.
Last edited by Cholmondely on Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by Cholmondely »

Does anyone know if http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Dave_Hughes is Classic Elite fiction or Frontier Fiction?

Silly me! The 3 stories are from Selezen's pre-Syncretist phase.
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by user2357 »

Cholmondely wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:50 pm
Next question

I've been tweaking away on the http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Lave page in the wiki. I've only just had a horrible thought ... is it really a Frontier/FFE page? I can't really tell, being quite ignorant of them. All I've really done so far is work away on the links. Could you please have a quick dekko and tell me what you think. The map is from Frontier/FFE.

There are, of course, a veritable plethora of pages on Lave - and on a bevy of relevant OXPs.

I was misled because the http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Tionisla page is so obviously Frontier/FFE, so I assumed that Lave was not. Assumptions!
This The short answer: it's a lovely, horrible, typically messy mix of mismatched meanderings. :lol: It starts off well with original Xlite info, then brings in Lave's moon, which played a role in Commander Wagar's Oofictional take on what happened to the "furry felines" in an attempt to bridge the gap between the alternate Xlite and Frontier universes, and then it goes on to talk about the Federation, which is a Frontier-exclusive concept IMHO. So, it's got pretty much a bit of everything from everywhere in there.

The long answer: please refer to the short answer here above. :wink:
Last edited by user2357 on Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by user2357 »

Dear Commander Nite Owl

Thank you for your thorough, well-referenced argument. It is sincerely appreciated. :D

However... I will now attempt to reply with brevity, and, hopefully, a spot of subjective humour here and there as well... :wink:

*

To respond to your first point regarding the BOUNTY SYSTEM OXZ "which allows for crimes to be carried not only across systems but across Galactic [Charts]"... IMHO, this seems at least to conflict with:

"Elite: The Dark Wheel", p. 23, par. 5: ‘"Whatever happens now," Elyssia said as they took positions at the bridge consoles, "You’re going to get an 'offender' status tag. But Rafe thinks that[,] if you respect [Spacetrader Henry Bell’s mummified] body[,] they’ll just post [the criminal charge here] at Tionisla itself. Destroy the body[,] and they’ll probably notify most worlds in the vicinity [...]."'

If you agree with my assessment regarding this conflict, it does not seem to bother you particularly. ...and that is fine. :D

*

However, I still contend that "GalCop" is not a job title, and "Galcop", as a job title, also does not appear anywhere in any authentic, original, official documentation, as I have tried to prove previously by quoting what I thought were relevant sections from said documentation.

(Maybe I should just mention: the Oolite wiki/documentation... I'm sure you'll agree, is a mess. ...and even more so than the originals, which themselves left a fair amount of room for improvement. I do not consider Oolite documentation as part of any kind of official, authentic canon at the moment just yet, simply because the community responsible for its creation, do not seem to have any standards according to which they create the applicable content. ...except "The Virtuous Misfortune" Oofic, of course. ...But that's just me. :wink: )

Following your link to ALLEGIANCE, the only reference to "galcop" of any kind that I could find on that page, says the following:
galcop : this is the main station or one with similar behaviour
Moreover, the purple "Police" ships on the IFF System are also not designated as "Galcop" (c vs. C), referring to any kind of a job title, but merely as "Police". ...on the wiki page, at least. (I do not know what references might have been made in the code itself, though.)

Although your argument for consideration of the code over and above any documentation is indeed a strong one, IMHO, in this particular case, this code reference, however, refers to a role of a game object (please pardon, if applicable and as necessary, my unfamiliarity with proper coding jargon in this context), still designating it as merely being the property of the GalCop organisation, be that a station, or a Police Viper ship, or any other object "with similar behaviour". I still do not see any indication of "Galcop" (c vs. C) being used, even as a colloquial term, to refer to any kind of law-enforcement job title.

...But I guess the code reference given here above is open to a different interpretation, if you so choose. :wink:

(BTW, I have not yet found the term "Galactic Co-Operative of Planets" in the original "Space Trader's Flight Training Manual", "Elite: The Dark Wheel", "Imprint" or "The Virtuous Misfortune". I have seen it on the Taxi Galactica wiki page, though. However, I believe the official term is rather "Galactic Cooperative of Worlds". ...although "Galactic Co-Operative of Planets" certainly does seem to fit the acronym so much better.)

On the other hand again. the 1991 PC Elite Plus "Basic Flight Manual", p. 5, actually gives the logo of the "Galactic Co-operative of Worlds": two overlapping spheres/planets, one bigger, one smaller, with a rocket whizzing past.

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Fiction... yes... IU... is reality. :wink: ...unless, of course, it is presented as fiction within the game universe itself as well... but I have not found any evidence of that yet. :D

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"[...] as for tying the whole of this series of games into some sort of canon [...]" ... yes, I agree, at present, it certainly seems to be "just not possible". ...which tesseracting of the hypersphere, impossible as it might be, happily occupies my idle hours, no end. :wink:

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I furthermore agree that, as you say, "If we accept the premise that the code is the canon[,] then that canon cannot be easily defined for Oolite since it is in a constant state of flux." :D

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"[...] only the very basic principles of the game should be considered as canon." Once again, I agree wholeheartedly. My question is though; just exactly which "basic principles of the game should be considered as canon"?... ...and that determination is the hobby which occupies my idle hours so very enjoyably. :D

*

Does my agreement with your statements from an apparently opposing point of view seem contradictory?... Good. I would like to think that it is merely a paradox, though, and not a contradiction. ...but maybe I delude myself. Who knows? :wink:

Thank you, once again, Commander Nite Owl. Your recommendation regarding the necessary consideration of the code-as-canon is indeed a worthy one. Now I have something more to study, with which to occupy my idle hours, in my humble attempts at consolidating all the various, possibly-canonical elements out there in the infinitely-eternal multiverse. :D
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Re: Metafiction: Dialogues on the Lore of Xlite

Post by Cholmondely »

I've just added a History page to the wiki, if anybody has any constructive criticism of it! I still need to copy-edit it and bung in relevant links, but the guts of it are there.

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/History

Is there a history of humanity up to Commander Jameson of Classic Elite fame anywhere? I know of Selezen's Timeline (for Frontier) and Oolite Timeline for Oolite. I'm after something older from the pre-Frontier days when the need to synthesise Elite & Frontier was not yet born.
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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