Laser Combat Reimagined OXZ

[Redspear]

Updated again to v 0.5.1

Fix for error in manifest.plist

Apologies to anyone who downloaded v 0.5

[Cholmondely]

I've copied the first post here to the wiki, creating a new page for this OXP. http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Laser_ ... Reimagined

I added a summary at the end.

Some questions:

1) Have I categorised the Bolt laser accurately as being a cheaper & weaker version of the military?

2) How do these 15 buyable lasers relate to those in your New Lasers OXP?

For example: only some of the names are the same (eg Ingram 1919A4 Pulse laser) - but are they identical in effect/cost in each OXP? The Ergon PX38, for example, seems not to exist in New Lasers.

Are the bolt lasers doing the same thing in each OXP or does the definition change a tad?

In the canon, the differences between the 4 lasers are based on their mechanics - the way that they work. Is this also true in your schema?

3) Are the two OXPs fully compatible?

4) Any other needed changes? I'm not entirely happy with the formatting, and need to mull over better alternatives.

[Redspear]

Some questions

Firstly, this is almost entirely my own fault...

I tend to write my thoughts as I go - it presents the opportunity for early criticism/feedback which is often useful (even if my integration of such isn't always obvious). Consequently, the first post whilst still representing the 'problem' as I see it, no longer represents my 'solution' (explained my the more recent diagrams).

Crude summary:

• A new laser type (burst) between beam and military
• Lasers no longer double in range and or power with each upgrade
• Power varies according to size of laser & therefore ship size

Therefore the doubling problem is removed (extra step over same distance) and NPC ships can exhibit greater weapon variety without necessarily overpowering the beginner or underwhelming the experienced.

Re New Lasers, the two oxps currently don't mix very well although I have a plan to address this without requiring significant changes to the UBER lasers that some people seem to be do find of. Fully compatible? No, at least not in any way that makes much sense. I've only recently removed the exclusive requirement to this oxp in anticipation of updating new lasers.

As for laser 'mechanics', well the military laser was just an overpowered beam laser but yes, I've tried to include that.
Pulse: red, med rate, low power
Mining: blue, low rate, v.high power
Beam: yellow, v.high rate, low power
Burst: cyan, v.high rate, med power, high heat
Military: magenta, high rate (half that of beam), high power
Thargoid: green, high rate, low power, omnidirectional

So the burst laser really does (or at least subject to further testing should) operate in bursts. Meanwhile the military laser, despite being no less dangerous, has an almost imperceptible stutter rather than a continuous beam. In that respect, I think I've actually made them more distinct than before whilst employing all the primary and secondary colours of the additive colour model.

I need to test more (still not at v1.0) but I really think it helps to makes combat more interesting from the start of the game, rather than just something to be always avoided.

[Cholmondely]

Redspear:

I've just amplified the entries on the 4 basic lasers (pulse, beam, military & mining) on the wiki with links to relevant oxp's including yours.

Please take a quick look and make sure that my summaries of them are not misleading!

[hiran]

Redspear:

I've just amplified the entries on the 4 basic lasers (pulse, beam, military & mining) on the wiki with links to relevant oxp's including yours.

Please take a quick look and make sure that my summaries of them are not misleading!

I just took a look and really welcome the possibility to read and compare these equipment options.
Would also like to read more about the gatling laser, the LMSS and finally I am missing the barrage that looked like 4 lasers in parallel.

Is there such information availalbe? Please with extra sugar on top?

[Cholmondely]

Redspear:

I've just amplified the entries on the 4 basic lasers (pulse, beam, military & mining) on the wiki with links to relevant oxp's including yours.

Please take a quick look and make sure that my summaries of them are not misleading!

I just took a look and really welcome the possibility to read and compare these equipment options.
Would also like to read more about the gatling laser, the LMSS and finally I am missing the barrage that looked like 4 lasers in parallel.

Is there such information available? Please with extra sugar on top?

There's not much more to read about LMSS: jolly useful as it enables one to keep a military & a mining on the same fore mount. This does prevent building up expertise with the side lasers (if the mining laser was mounted there). Some of the older hands swore that side laser expertise was essential in reaching Elite, back in the halcyon days before the current glut of oxp's existed.

As regards Gatlings, Railguns, Cannon lasers etc., no idea, sorry. I just use the basic 4 and the Vimana when I can afford it (comes with the HUD, costs an arm and a leg, and would probably be regarded as a cheat back in the glory days before E:D).

I recall coming across mentions that the barrage of 4 was popular for NPC's back before Oolite v.1.80 (before the great AI revolution) when the only way to get into a decent fight was to have uber-enemies with 4 militaries at the front to fight against (presuming that one's combat skills were somewhat superior to your humble servant's!).

As regards Redspear's rejigging and his new Burst laser: I am utterly bamboozled by the jigs, rejigs, rerejigs and rererejigs. The resulting hebetation of the intellect precludes any analysis of the matter. My advice: give up jigging! Go for the Gavotte!! I specifically recommend the Galaedian Gavotte (Digebitian variant). Despite popular belief, you do not need to affect a prediliction for pantaloons: semi-gala dress will do quite nicely.

[hiran]

As regards Redspear's rejigging and his new Burst laser: I am utterly bamboozled by the jigs, rejigs, rerejigs and rererejigs. The resulting hebetation of the intellect precludes any analysis of the matter. My advice: give up jigging! Go for the Gavotte!! I specifically recommend the Galaedian Gavotte (Digebitian variant). Despite popular belief, you do not need to affect a prediliction for pantaloons: semi-gala dress will do quite nicely.

P-Pardon me? You lost me somewhere between 'As' and 'nicely'.

[Redspear]

Time to update and indeed simplify this thing...

OXP purpose:

• To avoid extremes of being consistently outgunned at game start and having minimal challenge once aquiring a military laser.
• To break up Pulse -> Beam -> Military progression with it's doubling power progression making each step too large.

OXP method:

• Defence Laser, lower power than pulse, granted to non hyperdrive fighters (you no longer have the worst laser)
• Burst Laser, between beam and military (although nearer to former), granted to slow freighters (you can run but they put up a better fight)
• Mining Laser updated to be combat practical and slightly superior to pulse

New Player progression: Pulse -> Mining -> Beam -> Burst -> Military

New Non-player progression: Defence -> Pulse -> Mining -> Beam - > Burst

Player has the same range of progression as before but it's now less extreme (may need to increase pricing progression in future...)

Non-players now have an expanded range with (crucially) options between both pulse to beam and beam to military.

Some pics with an upload of v0.5 to follow soon...


Lasers and typical roles (non-exclusive)





Lasers and power (adjusted for speed)



Thargoid laser might seem terrible but it always has facing (a huge advantage) and once it's in trouble it soon has friends too (I've changed nothing with regards to this weapon).


Hopefully that's a little more accessible than my prior charts and theorising

[Redspear]

Should be v 0.6 actually (0.5.1 is the old version).

Spot of bother uploading to the wiki but once that resolves it will be available.

[hiran]

Time to update and indeed simplify this thing...

Nice overview!

There is however always some but...
...how would the Vimana Beam mix into that diagram?

[Cholmondely]

Time to update and indeed simplify this thing...

Nice overview!

There is however always some but...
...how would the Vimana Beam mix into that diagram?

1) Wiki page updated with this information. I've kept the

There are now FIVE categories of player laser.

Pulse lasers now have extended range
Beam lasers have speed and are good for dogfights.
Military lasers are expensive all-rounders which heat up too quickly
Mining lasers are slow and powerful
Burst lasers are new: a weaker version of the military laser.

Header to the page, I presume it is still accurate.

2) Vimana Beam laser. This is an über-weapon which breaks game balance. Useful for such as I with utterly lousy combat skills - if my skills were better I'd probably have tried this OXP by now. Since my skills are useless, I always avoid fights if at all possible. Gnievmir included all sorts of "cheats" in his Vimana HUD - the new laser, more energy banks, more missile bays... when Dybal rejigged the HUD, he split some of these off into the Vimana Ship Overrides oxp.

My understanding (and Redspear will correct me) is that this oxp looks at laser combat overall, trying to come up with a satisfying rejig of laser combat which addresses the issues outlined above (crazy progression from useless pulse to über military) by rejigging the standard lasers and inventing a couple of others to plug the gaps in capability. This ignores the Vimana just as it ignores all the other 60-odd lasers which he and others have devised.

Redspear's other major laser OXP, (New Lasers) does a similar thing in rejigging the combat. But New Lasers does it by creating 21 new varieties. What I admire about it is that Redspear has made the species (avians/lobstoids etc) relevant to gaming - his über lasers are only buyable at the planets of the different species! Only a couple of oxp's really pick up on the variation of species - his is the best I've seen.

[Redspear]

1) Wiki page updated with this information. I've kept the

There are now FIVE categories of player laser.

Pulse lasers now have extended range
Beam lasers have speed and are good for dogfights.
Military lasers are expensive all-rounders which heat up too quickly
Mining lasers are slow and powerful
Burst lasers are new: a weaker version of the military laser.

Header to the page, I presume it is still accurate.

Thanks but not quite... The defence laser is also buyable (makes a cheap rear laser) and I've simplified to remove the range advantage from the pulse laser.

I appreciate that it may be confusing but my excuse for no wiki page was really that it was v0.6 (or will be once the wiki starts cooperating again...)
Partly based on your prior confusion I've tried to really address the core issue ONLY

• i.e that a player with a pulse laser cant really use it and that an npc all too easily gets stuck in the beam laser trap, where anything worse would be ineffective (unless in a pack) and anything better would be deadly (especially if in a pack!)

My understanding (and Redspear will correct me) is that this oxp looks at laser combat overall, trying to come up with a satisfying rejig of laser combat which addresses the issues outlined above (crazy progression from useless pulse to über military) by rejigging the standard lasers and inventing a couple of others to plug the gaps in capability. This ignores the Vimana just as it ignores all the other 60-odd lasers which he and others have devised.

That one however, you pretty much nailed it there.

What I admire about it is that Redspear has made the species (avians/lobstoids etc) relevant to gaming - his über lasers are only buyable at the planets of the different species! Only a couple of oxp's really pick up on the variation of species - his is the best I've seen.

Well, thanks. I must get back to station variation as it's pretty fun if you can tolerate my sense of humour but there might be some licensing issues re some of the stations.

Speaking of licensing, another thing I've done is to repurpose some of pagroove's work to add a theme not to a famous planet but rather to an inhabitant group. The vast majority of worlds are colonials so they don't play so often as to be annoying (so far...). Having a different experience upon both system arrival and at docking really helps to make the inhabitants seem relevant.

[Redspear]

I've kept the

There are now FIVE categories of player laser.

Pulse lasers now have extended range
Beam lasers have speed and are good for dogfights.
Military lasers are expensive all-rounders which heat up too quickly
Mining lasers are slow and powerful
Burst lasers are new: a weaker version of the military laser.

Header to the page, I presume it is still accurate.

Actually, keep it for now, I've got plans for laser range being based on shot power (rather than damage/second).
Both makes a degree of sense and keeps pulse and mining lasers relevant against the well equipped player, whereas the burst is to be allocated sparingly.

Inevitable diagram to follow

[Redspear]

To illustrate changes to laser ranges:

Inceased range representing increased shot power.
Beam and defence are actually the same in this regard but I want to try encouraging the fighters to come in closer.




Military laser is the most powerful but not the most powerful per shot, that award goes to the mining laser albeit with much reduced rate of fire.

So pulse and mining lasers compensate their low damage potential with relatively long range, while the super fast beam and military lasers don't have the best range but are more formidable.

As explained up thread: grant short range lasers to the smaller, faster ships and you encourage them to come up close; grant longer range lasers to the slower ships and you inhibit rear laser sniping being used against them.

The burst laser might look to be the best of the bunch but bear in mind that it is closer in damage potential to the beam than the military.

The extent of the scanner is 26.5km IIRC, so there's room for an uber version of each laser that extends its reach by another 5km (mining laser at 30 km would only match current default range of military laser).

[Redspear]

Continued issues with uploading to the wiki (for me at least).

Meanwhile v 0.6 is available here