[RELEASE] Goods Container

[Reval]

Goods Container, version 1.0

In the Manager and on the Wiki.

An externally mounted cargo cannister, installed on any available missile hardpoint. Currently available in 5-ton capacity for 5000 cr (tech level 6+).

NB. As of this version, Goods Containers are non-detachable!

A couple of examples, using FE Ships as a baseline:

Adder FE: 15 TC base + cargo bay extension = 30 TC + 1x Goods Container = 35 TC.

Cobra Mk 3 FE: 55 TC base + cargo bay extension = 70 TC + 4x Goods Containers = 90 TC.


Trade well!
Dor Reval of Xexedi, Space Grocer.

[Redspear]

Like it

I've thought of using pylons for stuff other than missiles/mines so I must have a poke around and see which method you used to do it.

Meanwhile, congratulations on another oxp contribution

[Reval]

Cheers, Redspear At this point not all the routines are quite watertight (I'm sure you'll discover why when you poke around script.js). Still not found a way around the case where all pylon mounted weapons are sold (none of the event-handlers I tried seemed to fire), but working on a fix as we speak...

[Reval]

Tip: due to the fact that Oolite doesn't register the externally upgraded cargo capacity immediately on loading a game, it is advisable to save your games with cargo-hold empty, to avoid loss of some previously bought goods.

[Reval]

Discovered a save-game bug at the last minute. Now fixed. Anyone who already downloaded this OXZ, please uninstall and re-install. It didn't seem worth a version update...

[another_commander]

It didn't seem worth a version update...

Pro-tip: Always update the version when you change even the smallest thing in an OXP.

[dybal]

It didn't seem worth a version update...

Pro-tip: Always update the version when you change even the smallest thing in an OXP.

Seconded!

That's what minor version numbers (v1.n.X) are for...

[Reval]

It didn't seem worth a version update...

Pro-tip: Always update the version when you change even the smallest thing in an OXP.

Seconded!

Sage advice, Sirs (consider this Midshipman duly chastened).

Coming up...

[Reval]

Goods Container, version 1.1

In the Manager and on the Wiki.

NEW IN VERSION 1.1

• Comprehensive save/load of Container parameters.
• Covered all cases of Container addition, removal, and jettisoning.
• Console and comms messages upon addition, removal, and jettisoning of Containers.

Trade well!

[Cholmondely]

Goods Container, version 1.1

In the Manager and on the Wiki.

NEW IN VERSION 1.1

• Comprehensive save/load of Container parameters.
• Covered all cases of Container addition, removal, and jettisoning.
• Console and comms messages upon addition, removal, and jettisoning of Containers.

Trade well!

But does it make any sense?

How much space does a missile actually take up? And how much space do 5T of cargo take up?

If it really is pylon mounted rather than integral (and I've seen no pictures of Cobras or anything else with pylons with mounted missiles) would it not end up in pieces littering the docking bay when one scrapes in to the station after imbibulating too many Malt Whiskies? Would it not get utterly marmalised when one is in battle with the boogums?

If I have one of these thingummies mounted and enter witchspace - and everything goes squiffy - would there not be a chance that the pylonic cargo pods end up in another system? Or as Thargoid-fodder in inter-stellar witchspace?

[Redspear]

But does it make any sense?

If 'makes sense' means 'to be clear and easy to understand' then why should it?

By explaining it as such Reval limits our ability to make it so according to our own understanding. As the author it would be to enforce the exact workings thereof upon our perception. Furthermore, in order to make them easy to understand they would need to be simple which, although desirable, can be restrictive in many cases.

Given that I'm not the author, how about this:

• Pylons are held secure withing the body of the ship, moreso than regular cargo because if an unlaunched missile or mine were to be destroyed...
• Pylons also offer greater space than a missile actually occupies - main reason being that the missile must launch and so requires additional space for this to occur from within the body of the ship

If it really is pylon mounted rather than integral (and I've seen no pictures of Cobras or anything else with pylons with mounted missiles) would it not end up in pieces littering the docking bay when one scrapes in to the station after imbibulating too many Malt Whiskies? Would it not get utterly marmalised when one is in battle with the boogums?

If I have one of these thingummies mounted and enter witchspace - and everything goes squiffy - would there not be a chance that the pylonic cargo pods end up in another system? Or as Thargoid-fodder in inter-stellar witchspace?

Couldn't we ask exactly the same of missiles and mines? And wouldn't my simplistic take above explain both? I'm not the author but as a user in a single player game I'm free to imagine whatever I can.

Most ship models (and certainly this applies to the default ones) do not display externally mounted missiles or mines.

My 'point' is simply this:

• I wouldn't worry too much about things making sense (at least by the definition used above) in this game
• Rather than 'does it make sense?', try asking, 'could it make sense?'
• If nothing else it's an exercise in imagination and it may even allow you to enjoy using oxps that you might otherwise dismiss
• I have no authority on this and it is just advice, you can take it or leave it

[Reval]

As I think Redspear was intimating, a Goods Container, externally mounted, makes just as much 'sense' as any missile or mine. As to practicalities, I have no idea, this is just a game. But in the game's context, if a mine or missile can be fitted to a pylon (and remember, most Oolite ships are big, including the Cobra), why not a container/cannister? - a missile, after all, is nothing if not a container for explosives. Some of the missiles we see even today mounted on the hardpoints of jet fighters are not exactly small.

Or is it the size and weight we were taking issue with? (if issue it was).

Edit: It occurs to me that in a vacuum without gravity, such factors don't even enter into consideration: we can make our pylon accessories as large, cumbersome, and heavy as we need to. Weight, force, and air-resistance don't form part of any space-engineer's equation... Missiles, mines, and cannisters are constructed and installed in a gravity-less vacuum, just as are the ships that carry them.

Edit2: So, forget aerodynamics. And watch out for the new 10-ton GC variant, soon in production if only because I want one for my shiny new Asp II FE, Xexe's Gleaming, to bring her cargo capacity up to 100 TC...

[Cholmondely]

It's not just your goods container. The same applies to repair bots, fuel tanks etc etc. And I'm very aware that the goods container merely follows the glorious example set by others.

Pylon-mounted contrasts with integral - try looking at photos of airplane engines on the web. It seems to be purely external to the craft.

But. Don't our missiles seem to be integral? Are there any images of pylons on any of the regular ships? Try here for example: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Griff_Industries.

The first use of 'pylon-mounting' seems to be Aegidian's right at the offset: https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.ph ... pylon#p853.
_______________________________________

Fuel tanks are another gripe! (We now have 4/5 .oxps offering these ).

Quirium. Seems to be highly explosive to me (remember Status Quo chapters 2 & 6?). An externally mounted fuel tank in the hands of a raw Jameson who has never docked seems an excellent way of blowing the orbital station out of orbit. And as for the internal fuel tanks in the middle of battling the boogums ... to go for something costing tens of thousands of credits makes a lot of sense. One presumes that all sorts of defensive safeguards and heavy container walls are included in the price.

But Stranger's one-use tank for 100cr? Or the fuelcollector's/fueltweak's expansible offerings at 50cr? Get caught in a dogfight with one of those ....

[Reval]

I'm frankly at a loss to understand your gripe with pylon-mounted accessories. I mentioned modern military jets: do they not have a plethora of missiles and pods in their inventory? We are merely working by analogy with the Oolite ships, surely?

We also have an 'integral' cargo space accessory in core Oolite in the form of the Large Cargo Bay (giving 15 TC extra capacity to any ship that can accommodate it).

No, whether photos/screenshots exist for Oolite or not, our missiles and cannisters are pylon-mounted, just as on a modern F-15. External bombs have a long and venerable history dating back to WW1... And, as you say, engines on modern airliners are external - and they are huge and heavy. The craft can take the weight, even in an atmosphere. But, as already touched upon, atmosphere doesn't enter the equation in space. There is no weight.

[Cholmondely]

I'm frankly at a loss to understand your gripe with pylon-mounted accessories. I mentioned modern military jets: do they not have a plethora of missiles and pods in their inventory? We are merely working by analogy with the Oolite ships, surely?

We also have an 'integral' cargo space accessory in core Oolite in the form of the Large Cargo Bay (giving 15 TC extra capacity to any ship that can accommodate it).

No, whether photos/screenshots exist for Oolite or not, our missiles and cannisters are pylon-mounted, just as on a modern F-15. External bombs have a long and venerable history dating back to WW1... And, as you say, engines on modern airliners are external - and they are huge and heavy. The craft can take the weight, even in an atmosphere. But, as already touched upon, atmosphere doesn't enter the equation in space. There is no weight.

Aaah! But I never until now mentioned the weight! OR that the concept was impossible.

My gripe is
(i) there is no pictorial evidence for externally mounted pylons
(ia) if the missiles are really internal (like submarine torpedoes) then the amount of space for stuff is a tad limited.
(ii) if things are externally mounted then they will get lost in a bad docking or in battle. And if they are explosive ......