Peace Time Trading

[F-P]

Ok, I may be accused of blasphemy here, but I was thinking wouldn't it be nice to have a peace time option.
Where you can fly around trading and not have to fight your way to the next system, just relax and enjoy the fantastic scenery.
I know there is the Population expansion pack, but I was thinking of a civilised section of the galaxy where pirates are rare and you can tootle about unmolested.
Then I thought of the old Andre Norton Solar Queen books, and thought of a trading system, where you bid on trading rights to a previously undiscovered planet, that only appears on the charts if you win the bidding. (A random gambling set up)
Then you have a set period of trading rights. Rather than spending credits you buy trade goods to swap for artefacts, gems, or spices. (Another randomised system, where the right goods get the right prizes.)
Anyway, back to blowing stuff up.

[ffutures]

I've suggested something similar, the snag is that all of the mechanisms that determine which cargoes, mail, passengers you get etc. seem to be based on your reputation and kills, so it is extremely difficult to get to a position where you can trade without constantly running out of money / letting your ship fall apart through poor maintenance / dying.

[gilhad]

I played "Hard start" as Iron Man (only one life, no reloads on death - but lot reloads on game crashed) and got from from Transporter, to Adder, to Boa Class Clipper - with a lot of equipement including front/aft Military Lasers (and lot of OXP too) - with only Above Average(104) - and lot ot that hits was even unnecessary. Mainly just trading, on the begining mainly asterod mininig. (But spend a lot of fuel in Injectors and often just a hit pirate to discourage him from front attack and then runned away in opposite direction).

In Strict mode I also spent a lot of time as Harmless/Mostly Harmless until I started boost my score for contracts requiring "better combat skill". The space is mainly empty and save there.

The trick was the same - from previous playing with telescope/grav scanners/whats all I had good idea, how the game is structured and I avoided frequented parts as much as possible (if there was not convenient group of Vipers to walk me safely home - then I flied inside their formation and used them as shield and hiding - usually some of first shots targeted on me did hit a viper and all police took that personally and retaliated together - which the hunting pack got personally and I just "tactically" leave them space to play with each other, while running to safety )

---

Anyway I can imagine some peacefull organisation, which awards better contracts to those, who have no blood on their hands "make love, not war". The prices would not be exactly lucrative, but if that are mainly packages with relaxed schedules, it would leave a lot of place for trading along the way.

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In Feudal worlds there is Hunting lodge, where tournaments take place - you have to score victory over viling participant by hitting him/her enought to yeald, but leave the ship alive - if you do not frce him/her to yeald or if you destroy the ship, then you just lost and it is costly. If you are just enought ahrd + gentle, then you may win nice price

---

I cane imagine organisations givin peacefull missions, where your kill number (which must be low to get it and to get good one) is recorded on start and the price is paid only if you bring the package/cargo/pasenger to final point and not increase your kill count on the whole way. Some may be even more lenient to your criminal status - "trafficing drugs is not so bad, but killing, even in selfdefence is terrible"

[Cody]

Welcome aboard, Commander...

- then I flied inside their formation and used them as shield and hiding - usually some of first shots targeted on me did hit a viper and all police took that personally and retaliated together

This is an effective tactic, and can work in several ways. Introducing a bunch of assassins to a bunch of pirates is always entertaining. But spare a thought for those poor Viper pilots, who were probably thinking of coffee and doughnuts when you drew fire onto them.

- "trafficing drugs is not so bad, but killing, even in selfdefence is terrible"

Hmm...

[gilhad]

Welcome aboard, Commander...

Thank you

- then I flied inside their formation and used them as shield and hiding - usually some of first shots targeted on me did hit a viper and all police took that personally and retaliated together

This is an effective tactic, and can work in several ways. Introducing a bunch of assassins to a bunch of pirates is always entertaining. But spare a thought for those poor Viper pilots, who were probably thinking of coffee and doughnuts when you drew fire onto them.

Well, they was paid to cope with pirates and they got that job voluntary (at least I suppose, as they were well armed and free to move). I was also hoping to just travel to their main station and deliver some food (probablebly also mentioned donuts and coffee)/computers/furs, that was in demand and legal. I did not ask pirates to go after me, I was just Clean trader wanting to bring supply, where it was requested. So if a patroll of Vipers was at Wichpoint, I just followed them on their patrol route. If some pirate was so stupid, to attack such patroll, I did not ask for that. (Also what is main teaching this days about armed attacker? Avoid him, run for safety, call police to manage situation ... exactly what I did.)

- "trafficing drugs is not so bad, but killing, even in selfdefence is terrible"

Hmm...

Technically "Liquere/Wines" are drugs too, as they contain alcohol. Also coffee, tea, cigaretes and sugar are drugs too - just legislation give them different position. And for many cases medicines and drugs are chemically the same, just one are prescribed by doctor (or even normally sold in regular shops) and other are not. So the main difference is legality - something written on paper by some peoples, which may change in time and be totally different even in neibourhood country (or on other planet). (America had Prohibition era, when alcohol was illegal, while before and after the one and same bottle was totally legal for adults. Peyotl is illegal substance or part of sacral rites on the same place on Earth, depending on time and religion only )

So I have no problems to imagine a group/religion/whatever which does not consider some kind of drugs (and some kind of usage) acceptable or even religious matter, while another group consider the same as illegal and put "Offender" flag on anyone involved. And the group of the former type could be so powerfull, that can offer missions on station board (well individuals offers missions there, ranging from sending recipes for soup to transporting tons of Narcotics).

As for myself, I do not trade in Narcotics (too risky, especially with Viper company) nor in Slaves, but happened to me, that I was scooping free floating cargo after a fight (without cargo scanner) and scooped some. Then throw it out and shoot it, to not scoop it again. But got scanned and marked in the time between. Also I scooped a lot of Escape Capsules, load them off on nearest Station (and got some Bounties and some Insulance), but missed that some of them was not in any category and departured just to get immediatly scanned and rewarded by Offender status for not selling those peoples as Slaves.

So it is easy to get Offender status, maybe even fugitive, if Station is attacked by say Thargoids and while you are shooting one down, a Viper jumps in the way and get shoot from lasers, which would otherwise kill attacking Thargoid ship. (And vice versa I got many times hit by police ship, while fighting Thargoid/fugitive, just because it took me too long and Viper was hunting him too and aligned with my ship, while still shooting).

In communist regime you can be jaIled or even put in forced work and your relatives prohibited from any education and allowed to only terrible manual work for just reading "wrong books" - happened to more people, I did know over mutual friends, even to some I did know personally.

So it is possible "maybe innoncent" from some point of view even with official Offender/Fugitive status and on the other hand be considerer "BloodThirstyMonster" for shooting attacker to death in selfdefence ("every life is saint, you cannot create one, you cannot take one away" - as militant vegan for expertise - or some extreme christianic with "if someone hit one your cheek, offer the other" non-violence maxima).

So I think, that in oolite universe (with edible poets and lethal brandy and dead or alive official bounties) could be some organisations/sects/othre "strange" groups, which would need some delivery or other missions and would not take in account "official legal status" and would pay less to pilots, who killed a lot of people (or even do not offer jobs to some with blood of hundreds deads on their hand).

[Disembodied]

It could be possible to create an area of a galaxy where all the planets have zero pirate activity (although perhaps still with the chance of a Thargoid incursion). In Galaxy 1, there are some 30-odd systems in a group towards the south-east edge of the map; to reach this group, travellers would have to pass through one or other of the close-set systems Zainlabi or Teesdi;

Zainlabi, (164,163), {5,133,145,179,242,243} within 7.0 LY. Radius 4004 km.
Confederacy, Mainly Ind. Pop. 3.7 B, Prod. 18648 MCr. HC: 6, TL: 8, Fierce Yellow Insects.
This world is ravaged by unpredictable civil war.

Teesdi (166,166), {5,57,159,179,242} within 7.0 LY. Radius 6054 km.
Democracy, Average Agri. Pop. 3.7 B, Prod. 11840 MCr. HC: 5, TL: 7, Human Colonials.
Teesdi is famous for Teesdiian shrew cutlet but ravaged by occasional solar activity.

Perhaps the 30-odd planets in this group (the Rimward Commonwealth?) have managed, by pooling their resources, to avoid (or at least delay) the general decline of the Co-operative, and have collectively cleared their systems of pirates. Heavy patrols at Zainlabi and Teesdi keep troublemakers out. Tensions are brewing: the fierce yellow insects of Zainlabi feel - rightly or wrongly - that their ships and crews are bearing the brunt of the guard duty, for little benefit: their system still has pirate activity, and many citizens feel that they should pull out of the deal. "Fierce" is the right word to describe this aggressive species: disputes often turn violent, and their Confederacy government is in danger of breakup. Sporadic bushfire wars are common as opposing forces fight it out.

[F-P]

Cheers me dears.
I think I may need to work on that cloaking device... Pass me the number 4 hammer please.

[Cody]

Pass me the number 4 hammer please.

<rummages through toolkit>
Number 3, number 5... nope, someone's nicked the number 4 hammer (probably that rogue Solo). Would a left-handed monkey wrench do?

[CaptSolo]

<rummages through toolkit>
Number 3, number 5... nope, someone's nicked the number 4 hammer (probably that rogue Solo). Would a left-handed monkey wrench do?

¿Qué?

[Cody]

<grins> Good to see you're still about, amigo!

[F-P]

Pass me the number 4 hammer please.

<rummages through toolkit>
Number 3, number 5... nope, someone's nicked the number 4 hammer (probably that rogue Solo). Would a left-handed monkey wrench do?

Damn, the left handed monkey went native at Tionisla,

[Cholmondely]

by F-P » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:05 pm
Ok, I may be accused of blasphemy here, but I was thinking wouldn't it be nice to have a peace time option.
Where you can fly around trading and not have to fight your way to the next system, just relax and enjoy the fantastic scenery.
I know there is the Population expansion pack, but I was thinking of a civilised section of the galaxy where pirates are rare and you can tootle about unmolested.
Then I thought of the old Andre Norton Solar Queen books, and thought of a trading system, where you bid on trading rights to a previously undiscovered planet, that only appears on the charts if you win the bidding. (A random gambling set up)
Then you have a set period of trading rights. Rather than spending credits you buy trade goods to swap for artefacts, gems, or spices. (Another randomised system, where the right goods get the right prizes.)
Anyway, back to blowing stuff up.

by ffutures » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:19 pm
I've suggested something similar, the snag is that all of the mechanisms that determine which cargoes, mail, passengers you get etc. seem to be based on your reputation and kills, so it is extremely difficult to get to a position where you can trade without constantly running out of money / letting your ship fall apart through poor maintenance / dying.

Is this snag really relevant? I've been tip-toeing over much of the western edge of Galaxy 1 without a single kill and making enough money to keep on adding goodies to my cobra. I am definitely making enough money to pay for maintenance without any kills.

[Reval]

Is this snag really relevant? I've been tip-toeing over much of the western edge of Galaxy 1 without a single kill and making enough money to keep on adding goodies to my cobra. I am definitely making enough money to pay for maintenance without any kills.

Ditto. But why not come join me in the Xexedi Cluster? - lots of lovely milk runs up there, notably the beautiful short-haul from Xexedi (Rich Ind./TL 14) to Laenin (Poor Ag./TL 4), at only 0.8 LY. Make a fortune, even in the Addy - with cargo extension, of course

Why the worry about pirates/hunters all over this board? Felt compelled to chime in on this one: pirates are moot; you don't have to see them, ever. I barely notice their presence. Just keep out of the corridor between WP and station. And carry an energy bomb on the offchance one strays onto your course and offers his paltry challenge... And use - and upgrade - the injectors. Hostiles rarely keep up.

(But newbies, unfortunately, don't generally have the knowledge or awareness to make this simple tweak.)

Kill-counting in Oolite is a sticky problem, granted. Remaining 'Harmless' closes off cargo, passenger and courier work. So, again, we are forced into hacking the savegame-file.

I'd rather not kill, even in a game. And I'm sure there are others here sharing the sentiment. Something needs to be addressed in the core coding to allow for us. Really. All the newbie posts contra pirates testify to this. Game balance is all skewed against the player, and currently the only way to even the odds is to go into equipment.plist and forbid the NPCs military hardware.

Why not base the 'elite' rating on trading, rather than laser, skill? Or, better still, offer Jamesons the choice of adopting the role of Trader or Hunter, with subsequent ability to switch. Choosing Trader would empty the space-lanes of hostiles and they'd be playing in a relatively peaceable Ooniverse.

IMO fighting just strains the wrists; it's not at all enjoyable. And I'm happy to remain a humble Space Grocer.

[CalebOfIronAssMiner]

I was thinking about this "killing spree" too. However "completely peaceful" would not work very well. Evil is everywhere.

I kept away from fights, generally only vaporizing those who decided to fire at me first, until I figured out how to fight Thargoids successfully (a bunch of Carrier Fugitive Idiots did the trick). Nowadays the vast majority of my combat rating is Thargoid kills. Find a pair of systems close together, jump into interstellar space from one while targetting the other, inject away, switch to back view, shoot the bugs one at a time from a safe distance, once none are left, misjump again, keep an eye on the misjump count (you don't want to get witchspace sick in interstellar space) and once satisfied, simply finish the jump to the other one.

My current idea about this "peace versus war" is some sort of "followers of Towig" group, where "Towig" is the entity that prefers peace but is not against the war in case the war is the only solution. The problem is that only Towig has all the information necessary to make these decisions.

So the idea continues with having some sort of "scanner" that you would have to use and it would tell you something important about the attacker. Well, directly telling you what to do is kinda boring so I would prefer the equipment to spit information like "this poor fella is just trying to make ends meet and sees no other way of doing that" and then it is up to you to figure out what to do: kill him? run away? drop him some cargo? lure him towards an asteroid field and then crack a few rocks for him?

The point would be that not every "clean" guy is innocent and not every "fugitive" is a bag of money waiting to be popped up with your laser. Sometimes "the right thing to do" is to vaporize the "clean" guy (maybe he is some corrupt official) and to leave the "fugitive" guy alone (flagged due to corruption somewhere) or even help him (a pack of pirates to whom Towig actually wants to show some mercy and wants you to drop them some cargo or something).

The "scanner" could be explained as communicating with a base where thousands of followers of Towig spend their time talking to Towig and relaying the messages between the base and whoever needs this kind of assistance.

Your actions would affect the success rate of the "scanner" (if you keep killing the "poor fellas", the scanner would have trouble identifying other "poor fellas").

Maybe, to incentivize the player I would add some sort of "luck" that would lead to e.g. the player's ship wearing down faster if the player. Or ships like some sap in a Worm that you for some bizzare reason can't kill because e.g. it lands a hit on your shield and that causes your laser to overheat, when it becomes able to fire again, the Worm shifted away and you need to realign. Or the Worm simply keeps refusing to die for some mysterious reason, seems to always hit and once it gets to your hull, it almost always damages your most important piece of kit. Like shield boosters or shield capacitors or that nifty Targeting Enhancement that places that nice little arrow around your gun's reticule.

I was even thinking about a like of equipment that is superior to the standard equipment in some way but it needs you to diligently make the best decisions using your "Towig Scanner" or the equipment starts to fail in mysterious ways.

Also, "following the right way" shall make the universe safer and better place to do. But right now this is just a nebulous idea related somehow to the number and skill of pirates to be found in the various less safe systems.

[Cholmondely]

Is this snag really relevant? I've been tip-toeing over much of the western edge of Galaxy 1 without a single kill and making enough money to keep on adding goodies to my cobra. I am definitely making enough money to pay for maintenance without any kills.

Ditto. But why not come join me in the Xexedi Cluster? - lots of lovely milk runs up there, notably the beautiful short-haul from Xexedi (Rich Ind./TL 14) to Laenin (Poor Ag./TL 4), at only 0.8 LY. Make a fortune, even in the Addy - with cargo extension, of course

Well! I pootled all the way over to Xexedi to take you up on your kind offer ... maybe even offer you a decent cup of tea ... and ... nothing! The stationmaster there had never even heard of you, Benedict could find no trace of you in the bars ... he even stopped several winsome-looking young frogs ... zippo! No sign of Space-Grocers, just various seedy-looking sorts with either scowls or simpers.

Disgruntled,

Cholmondeley