(Release) Modern Start

Discussion and information relevant to creating special missions, new ships, skins etc.

Moderators: winston, another_commander

Post Reply
User avatar
phkb
Impressively Grand Sub-Admiral
Impressively Grand Sub-Admiral
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:37 pm
Location: Writing more OXPs, because the world needs more OXPs.

(Release) Modern Start

Post by phkb »

There has been much discussion over time about the difficulty level of the early game for new players. In the standard game, gifted the best ship but with no upgrades, new players struggle to escape danger from pirates and missiles, and get annoyed by unavoidable masslocks on the way to the station. Part of this is intentional, to enhance the "universe is deadly" feel of the game and to remind the player they aren't at the centre of it, but in the end I think some players can feel frustrated. It's hard to understand how in the year 3200 some pieces of equipment are not installed by default, like fuel injectors and fuel scoops. And with all the marvellous tech in the future, why is it we have to purchase an upgrade for our HUD that highlights our current target? Why isn't that a default installation?

There are probably ways to explain the lack of any of those things, and that's fine. This OXP aims to give the player a new way to start the game, with four pieces of extra equipment designed to make life simpler for new players. So let me state this clearly right at the start - this OXP will make the early part of the game easier. That is the intention. Anyway, here's what you get and why:

Fuel Injectors: These are necessary (and almost universally voted the No.1 first upgrade for any new ship) to escape pirates, missiles and masslocks.

Fuel Scoops: Sun-skimming for fuel should be an option from day 1 if the player wants to get into piracy or smuggling, and being able to scoop cargo should also be available to brand new players.

Scanner Targeting Enhancement: I've included this because it makes the HUD come alive with what I believe to be critical data. First, the player gets a little arrow around the crosshairs pointing to where their target is. Secondly, when the target is visible on the viewscreen some vital pieces of information are shown: the distance to target, and the target's current legal status. Knowing how far away a target is helps you decide when you should start shooting with your current weapon. Shoot too early and you risk overheating your laser prematurely for no benefit. And knowing the target's legal status can help new players flee trouble quickly, rather than just waiting to see if the scanner turns red.

Fast Target Selector: Attempting to target a ship on the edge of scanner range can be a frustrating process of jiggling the crosshairs over the distant ship, hoping the ident system locks on. The Fast Target Selctor makes life easier by allowing the player to just cycle through all targets on the scanner.

There are, of course, arguments to both include other pieces of equipment at the start, or for why the ones I have chosen shouldn't be given away at the start. That's fine. It may be that after some discussion the list might get altered. Also, there are those for whom the opening part of the game creates some of the best sweat-inducing, nail-biting moments ever, as you wrangle your underpowered Cobbie past pirates who will pursue you all the way to the main station trying to get your cargo. That's fine! My goal isn't to rob people of some potentially wonderful gaming moments. My hope, though, is that by using this OXP some new players can find their feet faster, allowing them to experience more of the fun side of the game, after which they might be more inclined to try the original start position.

I've included 6 different scenarios to start from:
  • Modern - Standard, start with a Cobra Mark III.
  • Modern - Medium, start with a Moray Star Boat.
  • Modern - Hard, start with a Cobra Mark I.
  • Modern - Harder, start with an Adder.
  • Modern - Miner, start with a mining Cobra Mark I.
  • Modern - Hauler, start with a second-hand Python.
I haven't included a "Broke Adder" scenario, as that is already available via the "Start Choices" OXP.

With thanks to spara for his "Start Choices" OXP, on which this OXP is based. Both OXP's can be installed at the same time, giving new players even more starting positions.

Download via the manager. [EliteWiki] Wiki page also available.
User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 16081
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: The Lizard's Claw
Contact:

Re: (Release) Modern Start

Post by Cody »

If you're throwing kit at new players to make their game easier, you should include Target Autolock.
I would advise stilts for the quagmires, and camels for the snowy hills
And any survivors, their debts I will certainly pay. There's always a way!
User avatar
Redspear
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2687
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:22 pm
Location: On the moon Thought, orbiting the planet Ignorance.

Re: (Release) Modern Start

Post by Redspear »

I like that you've made it compatible with start choices rather than just an alternative.
Cody wrote:
If you're throwing kit at new players to make their game easier, you should include Target Autolock.
Disagree. Whilst I think the STE is a good choice for the reasons phkb mentions, personally I would neither add target autolock nor the fast target selector if I were limiting it to four additions. For your consideration:
  • The "edge of the scanner" scenario is most relevant to missiles (assuming the player is starting with a pulse laser) so the target is neither in laser range for the player nor s the player in laser range for them (unless they are viper interceptors or oxp 'superships').
  • Whilst cycling though potential missile targets is nice, the starting player (typically) has only 3 missiles. It is indeed true that they are one of the few items affordable right from the start but it is also true that they are often not as effective as the beginner might either wish or expect due to ECM being a common piece of non-player kit.
So my choice for the other piece of equipment would be one that I would actually consider to be too generous if it weren't for the fact that equipment can easily be damaged: the ECM.
  • Whilst no longer quite as deadly as I remember in my elite days, a missile hit can be devastating.
  • With start options including more vulnerable ships than the mk III, a missile hit can be an instant game over moment. 
  • With very poor chance of avoidance on the part of the beginner (not every ship as fast as the mk III; not every missile fired at you from dead ahead, where your chance of shooting it is reasonable; when you are shooting at it you only have a pulse laser) the 'game over' outcome is likely not just from when the missile hits you but from when it is fired. Given that missiles are very common non-player weapons, that makes starting out brutal.
One option might be to include ECM as equipment for just some of the starting ships you are offering.

In any case, another nice oxp by the looks of it. Thanks :)
Astrobe
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 609
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:26 pm

Re: (Release) Modern Start

Post by Astrobe »

Maybe also the ASC? I never noticed that the default compass auto-switches to the station when you're close enough.
User avatar
Redspear
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2687
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:22 pm
Location: On the moon Thought, orbiting the planet Ignorance.

Re: (Release) Modern Start

Post by Redspear »

Yeah, that's how elite did it of course. I'd agree that there's a case for the ASC.

Here's a very simple alternative start:

Cobra Mk III
  • Forward Pulse Laser
    3 Hardened Missiles
So you have three aces in hand to get you started, but once they're spent then you're on your own.

...might need to do something to stop the player from selling them though...
User avatar
phkb
Impressively Grand Sub-Admiral
Impressively Grand Sub-Admiral
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:37 pm
Location: Writing more OXPs, because the world needs more OXPs.

Re: (Release) Modern Start

Post by phkb »

Taking another perspective on the equipment items I selected, the ones I chose I believe bring the player into line with what (most) NPC's can do by default, particularly around targeting. NPC's don't struggle to (a) target the player when they come within scanner range, or (b) know the precise distance to the player in order to start shooting. The AI routines give NPC's a distinct edge over the starting position of the player in the standard game in this regard. I think (but I'm not 100% certain of this) that NPC's also get to know what the legal status of the player is, which would again be an advantage they have over the player initially.
Redspear wrote:
So my choice for the other piece of equipment would be <snip> the ECM.
I think by giving the player injectors they can now at least escape a missile (including hardheads), so ECM's become almost a convenience thing, to minimise the need to run away mid-battle. Also, for the "Hard" and "Harder" start positions, with so little spare energy to use to power the ECM, you'd only get 1 or perhaps 2 bursts of ECM before you'd have to wait for your energy to recharge. If another missile was fired, or your ECM burst failed to deal with all the missiles, you'd end up falling back to your injectors anyway.
Cody wrote:
you should include Target Autolock.
That's certainly an option, but I think it would be instead of the FTS. TA works by auto-targeting hostile targets if you don't already have a target selected (at least, that's my understanding of it). In my mind this would work best if the player doesn't try to target anything at first, but just powers on to the station ignoring all other ships. If a ship turns hostile, TA kicks in and the player is good to go. FTS makes this more of a manual process. It will restrict the list of targets to hostile ones (when there are any), but you have to manually switch between them. As a starting position I thought FTS was a good option, as it provides a bit of help, without going fully automatic. TA would then be a natural upgrade.
Redspear wrote:
The "edge of the scanner" scenario is most relevant to missiles
With the STE in place, and given the information it supplies, I'd argue that an "edge of the scanner" scenario is relevant to everything. For example, the player is heading down the lane, full torus, when a target appears on his scanner and he drops back to normal speed. Using FTS they quickly target the ship. Uh oh, STE shows they're an "Offender"! They then can turn the ship around, and inject away until the target drops off the scanner and they can loop around the danger. With luck the player can achieve all of that process before the AI has had a chance to recognise the presence of the player and make a decision to attack.
Astrobe wrote:
Maybe also the ASC?
That's a potential option, but combined with the 4 items I have included I think it would make the early game a bit too easy. I've been playing a game from the "Modern - Hard" start position, and while the ASC would have been nice to have, I found the challenge of trying to see the station in the distance as I headed towards the planet a fun thing to do. There's also a key game mechanic that it's important for the player to learn, for the times when the ASC is damaged. I guess it's also arguable that all the other items included hide key game mechanics from the player, but I think it's slightly different in the case of the space compass. When the injectors are damaged, they just don't work. Same with the STE, scoops and FTS. The ASC, though, switches back to a basic operation mode which the player wouldn't have seen before and could cause some confusion.

Thinking about this one (the ASC) a bit more, there may be a case for creating an OXP that lists (via an MFD or via the console) all the entities that would normally be visible via the ASC, along with (maybe) their current distances. This would then at least alert the player to the presence of other stations, without making the job of finding them too simple.

Thanks for the feedback everyone! It's great to work through all this together. I hope this doesn't sound like I'm just rejecting all your responses. I really value the chance to discuss the pros and cons of other possible inclusions.
User avatar
Cody
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Sharp Shooter Spam Assassin
Posts: 16081
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:31 pm
Location: The Lizard's Claw
Contact:

Re: (Release) Modern Start

Post by Cody »

phkb wrote:
... the ones I chose I believe bring the player into line with what (most) NPC's can do by default, particularly around targeting. NPC's don't struggle to (a) target the player when they come within scanner range...
Don't all NPCs know immediately which ship has just hit them? That's why I suggested TA (though it does have potential difficulties).
I would advise stilts for the quagmires, and camels for the snowy hills
And any survivors, their debts I will certainly pay. There's always a way!
User avatar
Redspear
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2687
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:22 pm
Location: On the moon Thought, orbiting the planet Ignorance.

Re: (Release) Modern Start

Post by Redspear »

phkb wrote:
I think by giving the player injectors they can now at least escape a missile (including hardheads), so ECM's become almost a convenience thing, to minimise the need to run away mid-battle.
For the MkIII, I think that's mostly true but for the slower ships (which includes all of your other options) then they will need to hit the injectors for longer in order to achieve the same.

Fuel has a nasty habit of running out of course and in a weaker ship you're likely to be running both more often and at greater fuel cost than in the (very much) faster MkIII.
Missile vs missile strategies are also less viable when 1, your ship can carry less missiles, and 2, you have less potential to refund the cost of using them on account of a smaller cargo hold.
And then the injectors can always be damaged of course...
phkb wrote:
I'd argue that an "edge of the scanner" scenario is relevant to everything
Well I did say most relevant :lol:

The example you give is a nice one but the equipment seems to be saving you a only few seconds, with injectors I'm not sure how much help that is. Maybe for the true beginner it's more than just a few seconds.
phkb wrote:
The ASC, though, switches back to a basic operation mode which the player wouldn't have seen before and could cause some confusion.
True, I hadn't thought of that.
phkb wrote:
I hope this doesn't sound like I'm just rejecting all your responses.
Not at all. It's your oxp, just offering things for you to think about :)
User avatar
phkb
Impressively Grand Sub-Admiral
Impressively Grand Sub-Admiral
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:37 pm
Location: Writing more OXPs, because the world needs more OXPs.

Re: (Release) Modern Start

Post by phkb »

Cody wrote:
Don't all NPCs know immediately which ship has just hit them?
That's true, I hadn't thought of that case. TA would level the field a bit in that regard. It might be worth adding it in, to handle the case where the player hasn't targeted anything yet and is attacked. I'll think about that one a bit more. Thanks Cody!
Redspear wrote:
the equipment seems to be saving you a only few seconds, with injectors I'm not sure how much help that is
In my testing it seems to be more than enough. Even if the ships turn red before you've completed the escape maneuver, I've usually found I'm still able to get to torus before any ships with injectors have started heading towards me.

I guess any solution we put together is going to have flaws: injectors can run out of fuel or get damaged, ECM's can run out of energy or get damaged. It's something of a balancing act of providing new players with just enough help to limit early game frustrations, while also providing a challenge and a goal to move towards. If I have time I might try swapping the injectors for an ECM in a Cobra Mark I and see how that plays.
User avatar
Redspear
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2687
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:22 pm
Location: On the moon Thought, orbiting the planet Ignorance.

Re: (Release) Modern Start

Post by Redspear »

phkb wrote:
Redspear wrote:
the equipment seems to be saving you a only few seconds, with injectors I'm not sure how much help that is
In my testing it seems to be more than enough. Even if the ships turn red before you've completed the escape maneuver, I've usually found I'm still able to get to torus before any ships with injectors have started heading towards me.
What I mean is as long as you have the injectors you don't need those few seconds. It takes a little longer for you to do as in your example, you get the same information and you still have both the time and the means to escape long before they get into beam laser range. So if your tests suggest that it is "more than enough" then that was really my point.
Post Reply