Oolite 2.0 or II

[Astrobe]

Does that threaten the existence of an Oolite II being a branch-off from Elite, since that niche is already covered? It seems like if we followed their footsteps and made an "in name only" version of Elite, everybody would just prefer to play Dangerous since it's got a lot more features. That would limit us then to a totally separate game, devoid of any Elite characteristics, OR we'd have to completely stick with Elite and run with the story line as it was in the earlier days.

What you say is quite amusing. E:D doesn't even match Oolite in terms of features. E:D is a commercial multiplayer game, so they have to deliver the same game to everyone in order to be fair. Oolite on the other hand is a free single player game with a library of over 400 mods (OXP), so none of us are playing the same game.

The story line in Elite/Oolite is only there to provide an explanation about why the world is the way it is. More than a story it's actually history: it ignores you, but you can't ignore it. This history, in turn, is just a rulebook written as a novel. So the only reason we'd have to alter the story line is to change the rules.

[Astrobe]

On a related note my "surjector" experiment has evolved a bit. I tried to fuse together injectors and Torus drive by altering the injector speed multiplier but various problems happened:
- even if I set the multiplier to 32, apparently the ship doesn't reach Torus speed.
- the deceleration when a masslock happens is way higher than the deceleration that happens when you disengage injectors. As a result, with 32x injectors that go back to 7x or even 4x due to a masslock, you are way too safe because you can easily avoid hostile ships.
- with 4x injection on a Cobra I, it seems the AI doesn't "realise" that you're escaping using injectors.

As a result, I'm back with 7x injectors, no shields, and 5 times less fuel burning. What the OXP really solves is the cases when you're on a safer lane but the jump left you with little fuel. The real reason why one has to trade shields for it is that inject/Torus/inject/Torus... is just a different kind of boredom. Flying without shields keeps the player on their toes.

Here is the updated link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7mL1 ... W8wS3BKSVk

[Dave-Morgan]

Hi there

This is my first post, so I'll bore you with a quick introduction. I'm British, 65, retired from IT, have an elite badge somewhere in a draw, and have played Oolite for three days. I am filled with admiration for the creators and contributors to this game. My suggestions will probably seem silly or really old, but I'll risk making a few anyway.

1. Consensus on game change is impossible to achieve, so make Oolite II as configurable as possible. Profit margins, pirate frequency, speed of maneuver, etc. (Yeah - you can do it with addons - which are a marvelous part of the game - but they get outdated, conflict with each other, and so on).

2. I'd be tempted to drop mass locking and fuel injectors completely. Replace them with a Hyper Drive Disrupter (mine or shipboard weapon), thus allowing pirates to stop your ship and force combat, while removing the annoyance of pointless mass locks from friendly vessels. (I played the game for hours and avoided every pirate attack by using fuel injectors. Elite was more fun, as you had to dodge and weave to the station, firing rear lasers as you fled. It made 'ship speed' far more important than it is now. Apologies in advance if this mass lock/fuel injector criticism is inaccurate, due to my limited Oolite play time.).

3. Several addons have attempted to balance ships by attributing mass/volume to equipment. I think this is an excellent idea, but it can't work while people can create ships which have speed/size/cargo/energy recharge rate pulled out of the air. So I'd suggest having a core-level definition of how these attributes can be related in a balanced-compromise way, then allow ship builders to design ships using these basic rules, adding emphasis to one attribute at the cost of weakening others. No more Wonderworms.

Cheers!

[Cody]

Welcome aboard, Commander - from another old codger!

I played the game for hours and avoided every pirate attack by using fuel injectors. Elite was more fun, as you had to dodge and weave to the station, firing rear lasers as you fled.

Sometimes, pirates with injectors will follow you a long way, sniping all the while. Assassins often have injectors too, and they also like a good chase.

[Dave-Morgan]

Thanks for the welcome, ancient and wise one.

I suspected the 'pirates don't chase you' observation might be due to my limited game time. Glad to hear that pirates still pose a cut-throat threat, and aren't limited to rather slow Johny Depp silly walk.

[Cody]

If you want to add an extra edge to NPCs, install Skilled NPCs* - then start carrying 'sensitive' parcels.



*Not usually recommended for Jamesons.

[Rustem]

If you want to add an extra edge to NPCs, install Skilled NPCs* - then start carrying 'sensitive' parcels.



*Not usually recommended for Jamesons.

You can also recommend install: NPC-Energy-Units, N-Shields, ShieldCyclerNext (optional - DeepSpacePirates). Awarding of NPC!

[Redspear]

Hi Dave and welcome,

...thus allowing pirates to stop your ship and force combat, while removing the annoyance of pointless mass locks from friendly vessels.

That's a bit like my tweak to Norby's variable masslock oxp. Rather than remove the 'pointless mass locks' I chose to reduce their radius and therefore the time spent escaping them. To remove them completely, you could simply chage the 17000 vale to 0 and it should work.

Several addons have attempted to balance ships by attributing mass/volume to equipment. I think this is an excellent idea, but it can't work while people can create ships which have speed/size/cargo/energy recharge rate pulled out of the air. So I'd suggest having a core-level definition of how these attributes can be related in a balanced-compromise way, then allow ship builders to design ships using these basic rules, adding emphasis to one attribute at the cost of weakening others. No more Wonderworms.

I think this relates to your first point about consensus and folks wanting to be able to have their favourite (potentially physics-bending) ship in the game.

I don't want to speak for phkb and his highly impressive ship configuration oxp but I can say that equipment by ship class does 'label' any ship (whether core or oxp) and as such can deny it equipment and even change some of its properties. A bit heavy-handed perhaps but it's still a WIP and it does relate to the properties you mention (with each of them in some way determining how such 'labeling' is allocated). Furthermore, it provides an easy to tweak framework (or at least it will once I fully annotate it) that the user can adjust to their preference simply by swapping ship names around and/or the numeric values/equipment items.

[Stormrider]

Welcome Dave,
I do like ideas 1 and 2 but I don't know about 3. I understand your point but I like being able to create ships without being restricted to a specific set of parameters. Now if you don't like the stats I've assigned to a certain ship you don't have to install it, although if you really like it but can't deal with the configuration I would happily assist you in tweaking the  shipdata.plist so it is more to your liking. I'd wager that others here on this forum are willing to help with this as well.
Changing the core game in such a restrictive way to accommodate a few OXPs seems kind of backwards in my opinion. I feel that it is the responsibility of the OXP authors to address this configuration issue, if it bothers them, as Redspear has done.
I think the greatest thing about Oolite is that each individual can create and play the game any way they choose rather than playing a game someone else chooses for them.

[LSD 425]

Hey Everyone. I am a brand new player as of last week and I now love this game. This is some great work by the Developers and Community.

As a new player I thought my perspective might be valuable.

First off... MASS LOCK TEDIOUSNESS ALMOST MADE ME QUIT MY FIRST COUPLE HOURS IN PLAYING.

This is a real problem. Its frustrating. And a barrier to new players whom would otherwise love this game.

The solution is simple. Add a key press time accelerator. A core feature that accelerates game engine time while pushing a single key. The major benefits of which follow:

1. Speeds you through uneventful mass locks
2. Speeds you through docking delays
3. Benefits all players since you do not need an OXP or equipment to use it.
4. Doesn't affect any core mechanics or NPC interactions. The game is basically the same except you can speed up the boring parts.
5. Should be easy to implement. I noticed a time control OXP that requires developer version, so I assume mechanics are currently available in developer version.
6. Would make the game way more FUN.

Other wise here are some of my less important suggestions.

In regards to a core elite game vs a new space trading game. I think keeping the core game with expansions works really well. I would suggest a focus on collecting up some oxps into stable supported packages would be a good way to bridge the gap and leave the core mechanics alone. I found the ADDONS for Beginners package to be an excellent start.

Other wise if you want to change game play quit a bit here are my general thoughts.

I like the Idea that was suggested for an increased ship speed in trading lane(s) vs deep space. I would in fact remove the torus drive completely if this was the case. Basically you could only move fast in the trading lane and with injectors. Would need some testing.

Adding more economy types for planets is almost essential. Agriculture, Industry, Manufacture (like industry but cheaper in machines as well as ship upgrades), Mining, Tourism (pays more for liquour/wine/narcotics, gems)

Adding an in game setup screen for easier changes to the following.

Key-mapping - Yes the properties file is easy to understand and change, but this would be easier for newbs and I had a hell of a time finding it in my linux install.

Combat lethality -I personally went ahead and doubled the damage of a lasers to speed up combats, some people may want it lower.

Rewards adjustment - for bounties and courier jobs. Not everyone wants to be a focused trader. Currently changing the bounties required me to make edits in various parts of the populator script

Trade Variance - Some people like trading and being able to set less or greater variance in trading would be nice

etc. etc. etc.

All in all the game is great as it is and you guys have done a wonderful job. Cheers.

[Cody]

Welcome aboard, Commander...

Rewards adjustment - for bounties and courier jobs.

Courier contracts can be be quite lucrative - rewards rise as your courier reputation improves. What would you call a decent courier contract?

[tsoj]

First off... MASS LOCK TEDIOUSNESS ALMOST MADE ME QUIT MY FIRST COUPLE HOURS IN PLAYING.

This is a real problem. Its frustrating. And a barrier to new players whom would otherwise love this game.

Look up two posts above yours.

[Smivs]

The thing is, Masslock makes sense. Mostly to avoid collisions. So there is a case to say everything should Masslock you.
But yes it can get tedious, so why not just be able to re-engage torus Drive if you want to once you've been Masslocked. Have it as an automatic safety system that can be manually cancelled after activation.

[another_commander]

Would it be useful maybe if we had a JS read/write property like player.ship.massLockable (accompanied by its sister shipdata.plist property mass_lockable, valid only for player ships) that just hands masslock control over fully to scripts?

[Disembodied]

The thing is, Masslock makes sense. Mostly to avoid collisions. So there is a case to say everything should Masslock you.
But yes it can get tedious, so why not just be able to re-engage torus Drive if you want to once you've been Masslocked. Have it as an automatic safety system that can be manually cancelled after activation.

What if you're under attack - should players be able to torus away from combat if they want to? Or should the torus be disabled during red alerts?