The Current state of Space games in general

[Amah]

* a waypoint to a DS rock hermit for smuggling or an asteroid field?

[Disembodied]

* a waypoint to a DS rock hermit for smuggling or an asteroid field?

Yes, another good idea! Being able to build up a reservoir of that sort of local knowledge would also help the player create a "home system" (or at least a "home area").

[Astrobe]

Yes, gettig news from NPCs is a good idea, give a reason to stay on the space lanes.

That's an excellent point ... well worth thinking about some more! What sort of information could players expect to get? Trading contracts, news on (short-lived) price fluctuations (a glut in Radioactives on such-and-such a planet, or a high demand for Liquor and Wines on another) ... maybe information about pirate activity in the system/local systems - specific ships to watch out for? There would need to be some way to make this advantageous to know, though - perhaps via Astrobe's idea for a "periscope"/long-range scanner? As well as letting traders try to avoid particular pirate hunting-grounds, it would be useful for bounty hunters pursuing named targets, if we could get even a few "persistent NPCs".

I don't like scanner range extensions cause it feels like cheating but... One could share scanners with allies and get an extended range (justification: synchronising scanners allow each scanners to focus their power on a narrower sector, hence the extra range). It would be a good reason to hug convoys for a while, or even "convoy-hop". This could be annoying if pirates can do the same, so the equipment should be restricted to heavies in leader role and it would require a certain number of ships to work (maybe 4-6). So that would be actually to pieces of equipment: a "master" for heavies, and a "client" for escorts.

Trading contracts I thought of that one, but to be realistic it should be limited to "data" types of contracts - it can't be physical goods because you would have to eject them and they would have to scoop it (with all the trust and payment problems it implies). Furthermore, if it's transmittable data, what prevents the carriers to just transmit it to the station on arrival? I still like the idea, though, because currently all kind of contracts are only available at the main station. It needs some more thoughts to be believable.

Full market data of a nearby system would be incredibly valuable, perhaps too valuable - a difference of 10Cr times your cargo capacity can make a huge difference. Maybe the NPC could choose to not share its data when it sees those opportunities. Or it can be used as value appraisal for those data.

NPCs could also share waypoints that mark where they've been attacked or damaged, or where they had to release cargo in order to escape. That can be used offensively and defensively.

Currently all communications between NPCs are in "clear text", and one might wonder why they don't use an encrypted channel... If they would, then the players could run some sort of decryption program so they can eavesdrop them and get those precious information.

It looks like the thread has turned into "the state of Oolite"... Sorry, pagroove!

[Anonymissimus]

It looks like the thread has turned into "the state of Oolite"... Sorry, pagroove!

Also, a space game in general does absolutely not need to be a "you are sitting in your ship and are flying within space" - game, despite this being the only space games people around here seem to know. For instance, freeorion is undoubtedly a space game and successful open source. It's turn based strategy and has much less in common with oolite than with e.g. civilization-themed games (Sid Meiers' Civilization, its clones and similar).

[Disembodied]

I don't like scanner range extensions cause it feels like cheating but... One could share scanners with allies and get an extended range (justification: synchronising scanners allow each scanners to focus their power on a narrower sector, hence the extra range).

Or - if the player has advance information about a specific ship, with details of its transponder code/engine signature/insert handwave here - then that ship could be boxed and marked on-screen well beyond the scanner range, allowing the player to avoid it (or move to intercept it).

Trading contracts I thought of that one, but to be realistic it should be limited to "data" types of contracts - it can't be physical goods because you would have to eject them and they would have to scoop it (with all the trust and payment problems it implies). Furthermore, if it's transmittable data, what prevents the carriers to just transmit it to the station on arrival? I still like the idea, though, because currently all kind of contracts are only available at the main station. It needs some more thoughts to be believable.

The trade could be in the actual cargo contract - i.e. "When I reach the station, I'm supposed to collect a shipment of X to take to Y, but I can't do it - I'll pay you Z Cr if you take on the job (and the reputation benefits/penalties)". Or, if you want to actually transfer goods, the deal could be an arrangement to meet later, in the station, where the goods can be transferred and payments made. There would need to be a "Wait until Ship So-and-So docks" option in the station, of course.

All that said, this would be a good argument for making loading and unloading cargo take game time, like fitting equipment and making repairs. This could also add a feature to ship type, where some ships can be loaded quickly (2 minutes per TC, say) and others take longer (10 minutes per TC, maybe). This would provide a more natural way for ships you meet on the lanes to have time to dock before the player is ready to leave again. It would obviously affect the timing of cargo and parcel runs, but those could be tweaked - and it would add to the strategies required to be a successful courier/transporter. Plus, again, there could be more equipment - Improved Loading Decks or something - that would speed up loading and unloading. And, further, it would also help make big ships feel and operate differently from small ships: an Adder can be in and out in a few minutes, if necessary, but a fully laden Python will have to take its time ...

Full market data of a nearby system would be incredibly valuable, perhaps too valuable - a difference of 10Cr times your cargo capacity can make a huge difference. Maybe the NPC could choose to not share its data when it sees those opportunities. Or it can be used as value appraisal for those data.

Yes - I was thinking more along the lines of "I hear there's a shortage of Machinery on X", or "Rumour has it they're practically giving away Furs on Y": short-term bonus opportunities that may or may not last long enough for the player to take advantage of them.

[Amah]

* What about wandering escorts offering their services to player at witchpoint for safe passage... From honest john to "nice ship you have here, what a pity if it get's damaged..." butch.

[chomwitt]

I've played ED , little Infinity Battlescape , X4 , Helium Rain ,Dual universe,Everspace,Eve,Vendetta Online.

I prefer a deep space game with one moon! to a shallow galaxy .

I think the future of Elite-gaming is in multiplayer. But at the multiplayr core lies the 'identity' and persistance problems.
Can a game build meaningfull interactions ? A community ?
Interestengly from my gaming experience longturn freeciv has a special place in my mind regarding
the 'identity' issue of a networked game.

My ideal elite game is:
- as easy to pickup as 'Into the Breach' ,
- easy to install and run in a window without having to sacrifice my whole desktop (and with the
freedom to install it wherever i want without restrictions and drm)
Oolite excels in that.
- with multiplayer style as in Longturn freeciv
- with community building which means among others : libresource, and solving the funding framerowk issues
so in that regard a a mix of Oolite and Vegastrike approaches.
- persistance approach of DU, Longturn
- identity theory infusion of Ian Grigg style with a touch of Longturn
- coolness and simplicity of Oolite and Helium rain
- Procedural planet generation and battle map of Infinity Battlescape
- Map from ED
- Graphics of Everspace,Eve,ED (they do it well but with a different style)
- Some ecomomical aspects of X4.

But in the core i believe to have more meanintfull multiplayer lies the 'identity' and the 'persistance' problems.

[chomwitt]

Allow me to add a long term idea that lingers in my mind ..

The idea is to combine an elite game with a FreeOrion strategy game in multiplayer united world.
So imagine that there is a shared database with perhaps a blockchain to hold more stable and long
turn changes.
Initially we could aim lower. Like playing an Oollite single player session but in a galaxy that is
a snapshot from the strategy multiplayer aspect where the human players are replaced by NPCs.

It could happened in a locked fashion. In a longturn style FreeOrion game a turn ends and a player
has made some moves. Then in the next day the 'elite' players could load the shanpsot get a 'job' and do it.
Like trade or fight or explore a planet.
Then the changes they created in the snapshot would get saved in order for the next day the strategy playrers
would play next turn and so on.

[Cholmondely]

Allow me to add a long term idea that lingers in my mind ..

The idea is to combine an elite game with a FreeOrion strategy game in multiplayer united world.
So imagine that there is a shared database with perhaps a blockchain to hold more stable and long
turn changes.
Initially we could aim lower. Like playing an Oollite single player session but in a galaxy that is
a snapshot from the strategy multiplayer aspect where the human players are replaced by NPCs.

It could happened in a locked fashion. In a longturn style FreeOrion game a turn ends and a player
has made some moves. Then in the next day the 'elite' players could load the shanpsot get a 'job' and do it.
Like trade or fight or explore a planet.
Then the changes they created in the snapshot would get saved in order for the next day the strategy playrers
would play next turn and so on.

I do like your idea of doing more with the game - not just flying and trading - but becoming a player in a system and then moving on to affecting other systems.

So far we have one or two mission OXPs which are more adventurous (Ionics, Local Hero, Resistance Commander etc) and Home System & Diplomancy OXPs which give one a meaningful relationship with a system - but not really as an actor within it.

If we could build on them, what would you wish to add?

But I can't say that I'm so interested in MMPORGs - I'd much rather meet up with everybody in a cocktail bar!

[chomwitt]

I am not saying that an Oolite player should change his/her gamestyle he/she likes.
I think of a shared galaxy where some aspects of that shared data would be changed by a 4x freeorion client and
other data 'aspect' would be changed from an Oolite client.
So basically you need a shared database (with some state blockchained) and you have two clients adhering to two different
gameplay styles and each one having read permissions to most of the shared db but write permissions only to its gameplay related aspect.

So e.g : So an Oolite player controls a ship and its coordinates in the shared galaxy . A Freeorion player controls the economics stats of a system you are in.


Imagine if you play Oolite but the data of the systems are dynamically changed by other x4 clients by following some x4 related game rules that you dont care.

[thecoredump]

Maybe an easier solution could be to have an oxz (automatically updated) containing some sort of "community events" where some "game masters" could inject events like pirates incursions, damaged stations, stations needs for commodities, etc.
This way the Oolite community could be united!

[Cholmondely]

Maybe an easier solution could be to have an oxz (automatically updated) containing some sort of "community events" where some "game masters" could inject events like pirates incursions, damaged stations, stations needs for commodities, etc.
This way the Oolite community could be united!

That's one way of doing it, certainly.


Or one could have an OXP which did it all for us, changing each time for each player. And, I rather suspect, that that might be easier to manage.

Diplomancy initiates wars between systems. I'm not sure that that mean much apart from (i) making it impossible to buy a visa for an inimical system from the system one is in ... and (ii) possibly being attacked by the police if one is a citizen of an inimical system (not happened to me yet!).

Sadly both The Galactic Navy and the more modest HIMSN are non-functioning at the moment, and apart from what Diplomancy adds in, there seems to be little co-ordination between, say, the Communist systems.


But, I must say, going back a post or two, that the idea of running Digebiti certainly appeals to me!

Edited to add: Galactic Navy is functioning (I had a duff copy!) - and HIMSN is now finally up.

[Cody]

... the idea of running Digebiti certainly appeals to me!

<chortles>