The pain of flying an Andromeda...or any other big ship!

[Astrobe]

It's a bit shame all the worlds are a bit samey. I love extra planets, povray textures and distant suns, system features and such as they create variable systems. There's a lot of space for improvement here. Ideas are much welcomed.

I'm currently testing a minor tweak to extra planets that makes moons and planets a bit further away than they currently are, in a configurable manner. I'm not entirely satisfied with the result, though. What bugs me is the system is not "believable" in general. The moons are way too close to the planets, and the extra planets are way too close to the main planet. However I understand the drawbacks of making them further away. I came up with a bunch of ideas:

- for big main planets, the moons could be inhabited (+station), orbiting at a "believable" distance (perhaps a bit closer than where extra planets are currently).
- small main planets could be moons of a gas giant. One can then have a second inhabited moon (+station) on the other side of the planet for instance.
- binary planet systems are also an option, for mid-size planets.
- For systems with sun-Witchpoint-main planet nearly aligned, a second planet near the sun and mostly aligned with the rest would be "cinematic".

I'm biased towards 1 or 2 extra bodies only because I believe it's what one would normally be able to see with the naked eye, and I believe that just one extra station is enough for in-system trading (and taxi?) purposes.

This requires a lot more hacking than what I previously did, but that's something I'd like to see so it is definitely on my todo list. As for when...

[DrunkenPalpatine]

I can imagine an instant universe generator that would set up random galaxies when you start up the game.
As you might have seen already I can imagine a lot. I know very well that this is not very practicable.
I have to remind you that I am playing Oolite with 300+ oxps for more than some months now. And I somehow
accepted they way this game was created.
Still the "Big Ship = Dead Whale in Space" problem with the "Über-Lasers on Andromedas are a joke" and the very very very very limited trading and commerce problem has to be solved.

We need a logical and stringent price structure for all ships, goods and products. We need ways to invest huge amounts of money and interesting things you can build up and buy.

After 10 years of Oolite as "Han Solo barely making his live in the universe" and trading peanuts to make it artificially and unrealistically hard to generate money without being able to take enormous risks to get rich fast, it is time to develop new aspects of this wonderful world.

You can still fly around in your cobra and hunt pirates, on missions and trade funny things for 1000$ profit a trade. This won't be erased.
But there is much more POSSIBLE with Oolite. So much more.

PS: the first time I played Oolite was 6 years ago as far as I can remember.

[Anonymissimus]

I have flown some of the smallest ships available which are worth flying, e.g. Cobra Mk II-X (not the "rebalanced" version) from the very bottom of the ship list ordered by size. It's amazing to see NPCs actually miss regularly instead of continuously hitting as soon as they have hit once. The size difference between a Cobra 3 and an Adder is basically at least worth the increased shield recharge granted by the military shields. Oolite strongly favours small ships in this respect. Aside from that many things cannot be fitted to small ships and that their cargo is usually low.
EDIT
You are mentioning turrets in one of your opening posts...some of the newer OXP ships feature those. If I hear I'm being hit, I usually need to immediately change flying direction and speed, especially with ships more than very small. This is especially annoying if fighting many enemies while trying to give one of them the killing blow. With turrets, there is no need to keep the orientation while flying. Just dodge and dodge, turrets will keep hitting the target while I am rarely hit. Then when they inject away, there seems to sometimes be a second when they hesitate as if unsure which direction to take, that seems to happen if they are hit once again while already injecting away. That's when they can finally be destroyed. But laser needs to be cool for it just to get that few hits needed.

[DrunkenPalpatine]

I have flown some of the smallest ships available which are worth flying, e.g. Cobra Mk II-X (not the "rebalanced" version) from the very bottom of the ship list ordered by size. It's amazing to see NPCs actually miss regularly instead of continuously hitting as soon as they have hit once. The size difference between a Cobra 3 and an Adder is basically at least worth the increased shield recharge granted by the military shields. Oolite strongly favours small ships in this respect. Aside from that many things cannot be fitted to small ships and that their cargo is usually low.

And the usability of 1000 tons of cargo space is not given in the Ooniverse at this time - unless you visit every spice hermit in the system before you want to sell everything. 127t per station per product is the limit mostly. Unused space in space.

Nevertheless all the wonderful pictures you can see in space, those jellyfishes, pink moons, the giant liners...everything is so wonderful. I want to express my gratitude again. This game has the biggest heart and soul of any game I can imagine.

[DrunkenPalpatine]

I would like to tell you that I just saw the most wonderful thing: - one station ship transported a new navigation buoy and replaced the missing one!

I was glad to see this!

[Norby]

I do not want to read this ever again: Weapons destroyed

Now I removed this part from ShipVersion OXP, please update it.

[ClymAngus]

your talky. I like that. Whilst it may take time to go through your posts. It shows you have passion for the subject. Games are throw away these days. The model is BEGIN! Pay for addons, and again and again until a new pretty thing takes your attention away. Soon we find ourself in a gaming deficit. We cannot keep up. But why keep up? Who created the idea that games were a race in the first place . Games are not a race but a simple joy. The idea of being up to date in gaming is a modern contrivence. You have passion for the subject, I feel you will do well here but you should remember. There are no kings. If an aspect of the world vexes you..... Then supply it as a thing that people can change. For critics here have a certain value. Makers have more. If a flaw vexes you then step up. I did.

[DrunkenPalpatine]

Norby, my dear captain, and all you amazing people here at the board!
I just saw that we actually have a Star Destroyer available for the players!
Can this be true? Just wow!
I would like to update you on my little "big ship" problem: I switched from the Andromeda with a low serial number (2.4) that was broken literally in every dog fight to a Dark Rainbow 9.2 (lucky me!) which solved most of my breakdown problems with the equipment thus enabled me to actually dogfight huge packs of pirates. The turrets are basically almost a cheat but on the other hand it DOES solve the problem that it is nearly impossible to hit smaller ships efficiently with big ships due to the the inherent low maneuverability and very low weapon impact (of any weapon available). Thus the turrets give me a nice retributive effect.
tl;dr: The high serial number is a very important factor for the entire game play experience and fun. Much more than any noob can possible imagine.
My idea: Lets get a shipyard.oxp to actually pimp up your old low quality ship to a newer version that is much safer and stable. It can be costly and the shipyard should be only once a galaxy-sector.

Regarding a new weapons.oxp: How about the bigger and stronger weapons for BIG ships that use up most of the available space when bought? Or the single buyable shield-generators that logarithmically use up cargo space, too? Anybody working on this?

[DrunkenPalpatine]

I would like to say that oolite has by far the MOST available ships in both EVE and elite. This alone is an amazing fact. And don't tell me that eve is more complex...yes, it is maybe because you can set up 3 different kinds of space stations/factories to produce stuff. But compared to the dogfight situation oolite is actually superior to EVE. OOlite is also much more alive regarding AI objects- it feels real.

PS: can we have some MASSIVE Thargoid invasion? With death star like or star destroyer like superships?
Where the entire AI ships will attack together those giants?
Like the rebel fleet vs. the Imperial star destroyer?
You get my point?
I LOVE to kill those tiny green bugs but one fat ass Thargoid Mothership (I know we have those but they are still tiny) would be fun to behold and also scary!

[Cody]

You want a massive Thargoid warship? You got it!

[Anonymissimus]

I would like to update you on my little "big ship" problem: I switched from the Andromeda with a low serial number (2.4) that was broken literally in every dog fight to a Dark Rainbow 9.2 (lucky me!) which solved most of my breakdown problems with the equipment thus enabled me to actually dogfight huge packs of pirates. The turrets are basically almost a cheat but on the other hand it DOES solve the problem that it is nearly impossible to hit smaller ships efficiently with big ships due to the the inherent low maneuverability and very low weapon impact (of any weapon available). Thus the turrets give me a nice retributive effect. ?

Caduceus is not a "big ship". It has somewhat less surface than a Cobra 3, while most of it is because of its length, not width. It's a medium sized ship that can still dodge many shots.

[DrunkenPalpatine]

I would like to update you on my little "big ship" problem: I switched from the Andromeda with a low serial number (2.4) that was broken literally in every dog fight to a Dark Rainbow 9.2 (lucky me!) which solved most of my breakdown problems with the equipment thus enabled me to actually dogfight huge packs of pirates. The turrets are basically almost a cheat but on the other hand it DOES solve the problem that it is nearly impossible to hit smaller ships efficiently with big ships due to the the inherent low maneuverability and very low weapon impact (of any weapon available). Thus the turrets give me a nice retributive effect. ?

Caduceus is not a "big ship". It has somewhat less surface than a Cobra 3, while most of it is because of its length, not width. It's a medium sized ship that can still dodge many shots.

My mistake then. It has 16 missile slots and so many energy banks that I never actually looked at the specifications. The Dark Rainbow is the best ship regarding firepower x maneuverability in my eyes.

Regarding the Star Destroyer it is simply unbelievable to see 72 Tie Fighters to swarm out and attack. Breathtaking. And the 30 turrets turn space into one giant firework.
Still I got into problems with the star destroyer in my second battle since it does not have multiple lasers which results in the old Andromeda problem of not being able to kill tiny ships attacking in a swarm thus resulting in mass ramming and the additional hull damage and service downrating. Since the tie fighters are too slow to actually engage the enemy ships effectively and they also only attack en block ONLY the targeted ship and not the entire pirate fleet they are less effective than 2 viper escorts. Yet it is one AMAZING game experience to fly one Star Destroyer. And I do not mind that it behaves like, well, a star destroyer regarding maneuverability. That is OK. I only wish I had 5 main lasers front instead of 10 turrets.

[DrunkenPalpatine]

You want a massive Thargoid warship? You got it!

DEAR GOD! I wold probably spill my coffee onto my keyboard seeing something like that!
Thank your for that picture!

[Norby]

DrunkenPalpatine: thanks, [wiki]Star Destroyer[/wiki] is based exactly on your above ideas to make a combat oriented big ship. For more lasers the [wiki]Multiple Lasers[/wiki] package need an update for this ship.

Fighters not always aim your target, for example when a target is destroyed then choose one from ships which are attacked the mothership before. Escorts in [wiki]EscortDeck[/wiki] switch target when you choose a new one, fighters less likely.

"Serial number" is given by [wiki]ShipVersion[/wiki], your idea to allow upgrade is good, I added into my long todo.

Personally I do not think that a larger cannon on the nose should occupy more space in the cargo area within the ship. If you really want it then [wiki]Ship Configuration[/wiki] OXP allocate cargo space for large laser cannons.

For more Thargoids check these:
Extra Thargoids
[wiki]Swarm OXP[/wiki]
[wiki]TCAT OXP[/wiki]
[wiki]Thargoid Carrier[/wiki]
[wiki]Thargoid Wars[/wiki]
[wiki]Thargorn Threat oxp[/wiki]
Xeptatl's Sword

[DrunkenPalpatine]

Thank you very much. I am playing my Star Destroyer and Dark Rainbow both on separate saves now. Just watching 72 Tie fighters coming back into my ship is simply amazing. The entire Star destroyer experience is great. i was never expecting that it would be possible to fly such ship at oolite ever!

DrunkenPalpatine: thanks, [wiki]Star Destroyer[/wiki] is based exactly on your above ideas to make a combat oriented big ship. For more lasers the [wiki]Multiple Lasers[/wiki] package need an update for this ship.

Fighters not always aim your target, for example when a target is destroyed then choose one from ships which are attacked the mothership before. Escorts in [wiki]EscortDeck[/wiki] switch target when you choose a new one, fighters less likely.
I will add all the Thargoids oxps now.

"Serial number" is given by [wiki]ShipVersion[/wiki], your idea to allow upgrade is good, I added into my long todo.

Personally I do not think that a larger cannon on the nose should occupy more space in the cargo area within the ship. If you really want it then [wiki]Ship Configuration[/wiki] OXP allocate cargo space for large laser cannons.

For more Thargoids check these:
Extra Thargoids
[wiki]Swarm OXP[/wiki]
[wiki]TCAT OXP[/wiki]
[wiki]Thargoid Carrier[/wiki]
[wiki]Thargoid Wars[/wiki]
[wiki]Thargorn Threat oxp[/wiki]
Xeptatl's Sword