Crazy(?) idea for Witchdrive Fuel Injectors

[Redspear]

I’ve already suggested giving the WFI as starting equipment but I also have an idea for making it work a little differently and I’m not sure if it’s OXPable.

Any advice appreciated…

The WFI appears to serve two main purposes in oolite.

• 1. Combat manoeuvring (including escape)
  2. Escaping mass locks or otherwise operating when the torus drive is disabled

Both are very useful of course and especially so in the early game:

• 1. Potential to escape combat (when you’re ship is poorly equipped and you’re less practiced)
  2. Reduces time spent escaping mass locks

I’m essentially proposing two modes of operation for the WFI.

Mode 1-

• When: player condition red
  What: works as does current incarnation but expends slightly more fuel to do so
  Why: to counterbalance mode 2 (below)

Mode 2-

• When: player condition green or yellow
  What: offers less acceleration (maybe x4 instead of x8) but expends almost no fuel (or perhaps none at all)
  Why: to make it easier to escape mass locks without having to worry about the fuel gauge (on the grounds that a tactical decision within a game shouldn’t have to result consistently in a more boring outcome).

If you’ll forgive me, some pre-emptive answers/clarifications:

What about the reduction in speed? Won’t that make mass locks more tedious?

The reduction is primarily to give other ships a bit more time to engage with you while you’re still in condition yellow (x4 may not be the best value to achieve this). Perhaps mode #1 could still be primeable when not in red alert.

What about the name? They’re fuel injectors, surely that’s what they do and how they work: at the expense of fuel?

Well I suppose that depends how precious you want to be about the name. They’d still operate in that fashion for mode #1. By means of comparison fuel scoops also scoop cargo (they do still scoop however). If mode #2 were set at 0 fuel expenditure then it could be thought of as injecting negligible amounts of fuel (compared to a ship’s fuel capacity) rather than none at all.

What happens when you run out of fuel? Does mode 2 still work in combat? And if not, why not?

I would say no.
Gameplay reason: that would give free 'half-injectors' in combat and at no fuel cost. I think that would be too generous.
Handwavium: the equipment defaults to mode 1 in red alert and when mode 1 no longer works the reason is that the tanks are utterly empty, so even mode 2 is inoperable (in or out of combat).

What about other ships? Shouldn't they be running around in the same manner?

Quite possibly but this is about making the game more fun to play. If that question is a jarring one in your mind then it will probably make it less fun for you.

Why oxp?

I’d be very surprised if this idea was to everyone's taste.
Additionally it may be easier to make as a seperate piece of equipment.


So, does anyone have any constructive criticism?
Can the WFI speed be influenced by oxp or would it require a seperate piece of equipment? (in similar fashion to Norby’s work with the torus drive perhaps)?
If so, it might just be within my powers to make… maybe if I ever get around to finishing any of my 101 projects

[Switeck]

The idea has merit, because the long slow trip to the main station after a jump is incredibly slow at "normal" max speed.

So slow that we tell almost everyone to torus around the main space lane...and just ignore about half the game.

Likewise the Torus Bullet Drive, which makes your ship unable to maneuver while using the torus drive, might be in order for the cheaper/for free Witchdrive Fuel Injectors.

[Norby]

[wiki]Q-Charger[/wiki] is based on a similar idea: 2x speed and about 1/7 fuel usage than the 7x Injectors.

I have problem with the separation of red and yellow alert. Technincally the red mean another ship put a target lock on you and I missing an imaginable reason why this limit the ship drive.

If the goal is the faster escape from masslocks then we should find a solution where the player can get the 7x speed and can save fuel for other cost.

How about a "Nuclear Injector" which mix Radioactives into the fuel to earn 7x speed and low fuel consumption when use Injectors? For example 0.1ly and 1t for each 30sec. Still no bonus if no fuel left and Radioactives are illegal in some systems which make more trouble around the usage.

[Wildeblood]

Why oxp?

I’d be very surprised if this idea was to everyone's taste.

You'd be right there. I think it's a stupid idea, but that doesn' matter. I'd start with my Bullet Drive script, because it's a good, simple example of testing for manoeuvring/injector/torus speed and applying a frame callback. (The frame callback locks the orientation, rather than adjusting the velocity) When you see how simple that is, it will get your confidence up. Then go on to Norby's Torus To Sun script, or CSOTB's Q-Charger, or something else similar, for some code that adjusts the velocity. A bit of copy/paste and you're done.

If you want prime-able equipment, just make an equipment.plist that overwrites the definition for EQ_FUEL_INJECTION (or whatever the key is) and adds a script to it, rather than adding yet another new piece of equipment to the game.

[Redspear]

Likewise the Torus Bullet Drive, which makes your ship unable to maneuver while using the torus drive, might be in order for the cheaper/for free Witchdrive Fuel Injectors.

That could be a good addition, thanks

I have problem with the separation of red and yellow alert. Technincally the red mean another ship put a target lock on you and I missing an imaginable reason why this limit the ship drive.

Yes, it's a bit 'clunky' but I was thinking of it as red alert = full power, yellow = economy mode.

How about a "Nuclear Injector" which mix Radioactives into the fuel to earn 7x speed and low fuel consumption when use Injectors? For example 0.1ly and 1t for each 30sec. Still no bonus if no fuel left and Radioactives are illegal in some systems which make more trouble around the usage.

Nice idea but expensive in your early career (perhaps moreso in terms of cargo space than credits...)

You'd be right there. I think it's a stupid idea, but that doesn' matter.

I appreciate your honesty (and the advice ).

[Norby]

economy mode

So you imagine a "Twin Q-Charger" with 4x max.speed and 1/4 fuel consumption than Injectors?
I think the easiest way to implement this in the next version of Q-Charger.

I do not know if you want to deny the usage of full Injector speed in yellow alert. The Q-Charger update do not need this due to the 4x speed will be assigned to the full throttle setting. If you want to deny then must implement as another "feature".

[Redspear]

So you imagine a "Twin Q-Charger" with 4x max.speed and 1/4 fuel consumption than Injectors?
I think the easiest way to implement this in the next version of Q-Charger.

I do not know if you want to deny the usage of full Injector speed in yellow alert. The Q-Charger update do not need this due to the 4x speed will be assigned to the full throttle setting. If you want to deny then must implement as another "feature".

Hmmm... I'd forgotten about the Q-Charger until you mentioned it earlier (never tried it).
Also, after thinking about it, there are some other pieces of equipment that address this issue in some way, such as:

• [wiki]Fuel_Collector_OXP[/wiki] and
  [wiki]ExtraFuelTanks[/wiki]

What they miss, is something that is available very early on in the game to address this 'problem' for the starting player:

The idea has merit, because the long slow trip to the main station after a jump is incredibly slow at "normal" max speed.

So slow that we tell almost everyone to torus around the main space lane...and just ignore about half the game.

My idea above is a bit too 'clunky' though. The other oxps are smoother but expensive (and perhaps rightly so).

Any ideas for limitations that would hit the player more later in game rather than early on?
(requires cargo space perhaps?)

[Venator Dha]

I like the general idea, but not the restriction to alert mode.

I would like to suggest:

• Press and release injector button switches to the Mode 2 (x2 or x4); press and release again to switch off.
  
  Press and hold (as now) for the full boost

This would give the player control over which to use when.

[Redspear]

I would like to suggest:

• Press and release injector button switches to the Mode 2 (x2 or x4); press and release again to switch off.
  
  Press and hold (as now) for the full boost

This would give the player control over which to use when.

I like that, it's nice and simple

Given that the I key is already taken by this core piece of equipment I'm not sure if it can be oxp'd though...

[Venator Dha]

Given that the I key is already taken by this core piece of equipment I'm not sure if it can be oxp'd though...

Sorry can't help you with that.

[Norby]

The injector keypress is not detectabe at oxp level, the speed change is but the torus do the same change in speed so this is not the best way imho.

More ideas:

1. Small Fuel Injector: cheap to buy early (60Cr?), but incompatible with the normal Injectors (so will be replaced soon), give 3x speed for half fuel (so no fuel save on the same distance for this low cost).

2. Build a highway on the main lane in Industrial systems where a "magnetic field" can help to the injectors to save many fuel. A line of buoys show the path and the effect is valid until there are at least one highway buoy in the scanner (the field generators are in the buoys).

3. Agricultural worlds use a cheaper "Tractor Beam" which can help in the exact direction of the Planet only, save less fuel and no buoys, but the ship computer can show a virtual target on the nearest point of the main lane which lead you back.

4. The fuel saver lanes are not available in Anarchy systems.

[Zireael]

I like the ideas and I'd gladly test an OXP with some (or all!) of them.

[Redspear]

Sorry can't help you with that.

Hey, all ideas appreciated


Interesting thoughts, Norby.

#1 is the simplest of course and if missiles can be sold then it could be a reasonable purchase from the beginning of the game.

[mohawk]

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I found it interesting.

Just wanted to ask.
what if we could make the injectors a little more Newtonian?
And by that I mean use fuel only to accelerate and decelerate.
Maybe if you hit injectors with the speed set to max, then speed remains at 7x without consumption (It makes sense) until you reduce your speed below 98% where fuel is consumed to decelerate the ship to normal speed.
oxp only of course

If this makes things too easy for the player, we could make any speed alteration consume fuel, and even manoeuvring too.
or even energy generation.
still fishtank physics, but with less handwavium to put your head around it. (maybe if I play it cool no one will understand that I like the Newtonian side of things *poker face* )

[Cody]

... maybe if I play it cool no one will understand that I like the Newtonian side of things...

I found myself flying backwards once - Newtonian stuff.

As well as the Elite non-Newtonian flight patterns there is also an underlying newtonian physics mechanic going on as well. Personally I'd like for this to expand as I'd like to see the little puffs of vaporised hull from laser hits causing small vector shunts to the afflicted target. It'd give us a way to push asteroids around with pulse lasers, and I'm all up for a game of space billiards.