Clippers OXZ

[Smivs]

That's fixed it completely - many thanks!

<Smivs jumps up and down with glee>
You're welcome.

[Fritz]

I don't want to continue abusing phkb's Ship Comparison thread, so I'll continue here:

Btw, is there a Clipper version using the current (Griff) model?

No.

Would you mind me making one? Since the standard Griff Python has two engines anyhow, it would just be a texture variant with different specs, like my Gunship. I've made several Python textures in the last weeks and months, and I think I could try to apply your colour schemes to the core (Griff) model.

[Smivs]

Well the engines are one of the problems. You see since 1984 the Python has had one drive/engine, so an obvious upgrade was to give it two, and the logical way to do that was to eat into the cargo space. The Python ET takes a similar approach. The only way this concept would make sense using the Griff model would be to claim that 'more powerful' drives had been fitted, which is a fudge that leaves the ship looking the same.
In principle I am happy for others to use my work or draw on it. You are more than welcome to adapt specifications, designs, colour schemes etc. or even borrow the whole ship for a mission or similar.
However, as 'Clippers' is a current, up-to-date and fully maintained OXZ which is very popular I think that having another ship named Python Clipper (or Boa Clipper come to that) in another OXP would be rather confusing. I'm not sure that would be a good idea.

[Fritz]

I don't think it would be confusing. A standard Python is a standard Python, but it looks completely different on Elite, the "classic" Oolite and the current Oolite. As I have mentioned somewhere, there are actually two different "standard" Pythons in Oolite 1.82, but both have two engines. And in my Ooniverse there are two types of Cobra III flying around, one with two engines and one with two additional smaller engines...

The outer appearance depends on the Elite/Oolite version, and I consider the classic shipset to be a different version: Ships made for this shipset usually don't fit into the modern version or vice versa. But for the "storyline" the specs are the important thing: A standard Python should always have 100 (+15) TC capacity and speed of 0.20 LM, and a Python Clipper should always have 75 (+0) capacity and a speed of 0.325.

Engine number and size isn't too important. Look at the Boa, which is about as heavy as a Python but has only one single and relatively small engine. It is faster because it is considered to be a more modern design. So why don't fit modern, "faster" engines into an old Python? This has been done many times on aeroplanes in the real world. There are even DC-3s flying around with turbines fitted! So, from a logical perspective, even a Python with the max speed of a Boa 2 and still having 100 TC capacity would be possible without changing the outer shape. You would just have to fit very expensive, modern engines and perhaps some new electronics for controlling them.

If we ignore technical advancement, i.e. engines that are faster for a given size, the faster engines for the Python could simply be longer than the standard ones and that would explain a decrease in cargo space for the Clipper and my Gunship (with has, coincidentally, also 75 t capacity). That would also explain why the Anacondas and Boas have their engines fitted _above_ the cargo space...

And no, I don't have the intention to meddle with your OXP! But I'm going to make some kind of "Python variants" OXP sooner or later, so I could just include the Clipper for people who don't use your OXP.

[Smivs]

And no, I don't have the intention to meddle with your OXP! But I'm going to make some kind of "Python variants" OXP sooner or later, so I could just include the Clipper for people who don't use your OXP.

It's OK, I don't see any of this as 'meddling' at all and I think I see what you are thinking. But I've been around here long enough to know that having two different ships (and they would have to be different in some respects) in two different OXPs by two different authors which have the same name is a recipe for confusion.
Example:- New member posts that he's seen a Python Clipper do something weird, or the one he bought has a problem. Which one is he talking about? If he spots this very thread he might post here. He might have your Python Clipper installed, not mine. Confusion!
To be clear I really don't mind if you create a ship with an identical spec and even identical paint job using a Griff hull. But I really do think it should have a unique name.

[Fritz]

I understand your problem! I think, what causes some of these confusions is the structure of Elite Wiki. For me as a newbie, it was sometimes difficult to understand that there are different games, Oolite versions, shipsets, different OXPs and different models for the same ships in the same game and even completely different ships having almost the same name (e.g. Griff's Boa and Krait). Sometimes it is unclear if a ship is meant as a replacement model or as an additional model. And nobody is in charge of "officially" certifying or at least keeping track of new ship models and variants. Perhaps that's good, perhaps that's not so good...

I'll first try to make a texture, and if I like it, I'll show it to you. If you like it too, we can find a solution and perhaps even a logical explanation for a different name. Isn't "Python Clipper" just a marketing name for a luxury variant - leather seats, infotainment system and so on - of something called a "Turbo Python"?

[Cody]

The all-new Python Vanden Plas - there you go!

[Smivs]

<Chuckles at Cody's suggestion>

...it was sometimes difficult to understand that there are different games, Oolite versions, shipsets, different OXPs and different models for the same ships in the same game and even completely different ships having almost the same name (e.g. Griff's Boa and Krait). Sometimes it is unclear if a ship is meant as a replacement model or as an additional model.

Indeed, very confusing already this can be. (OK, I'll stop talking like Yoda.)
Certainly there are several alternative shipsets based on the core ships, both using the original models such as my old SmivsShipset and Deepspace Ships, and others, most notably Staer9's set and Simon B's Neolites which use original models by the author. Adding to the confusion of course is that the current default ships are based on and use the models from Griff's Normal-mapped set which can be used to graphically update the core ships. And the whole point of the Classic set is to preserve the heritage models and designs in a modern OXP. Confusing? Oh yes
However this tends to happen much less often with OXP ships. Normally an author would choose to design an original ship rather than redesigning one developed by somebody else, so the majority of OXP ships with more than one version are old ones which are so good and so popular somebody considers it worthwhile updating them. The original version remains available while the update becomes the 'standard'. I can't think of any OXP ships with two different current versions available.
On another note it is worth remembering that many players have more than one shipset installed, enjoying a variety of styles in one game, and so I don't think 'this fits with that but that doesn't fit with this' is really a concern.

[Fritz]

I never considered to switch to the classic shipset. But there is one thing about it that I prefer over the core shipset: the colours. Apart from the Moray Medical Boat and the Thargoids, the core ships are all coloured alike, at least when seen from a distance (and, let's be honest, that's most of the time!). Some have a rusty look or some coloured parts (plates), but these are mostly blue or green, often somehow worn out, and don't stick out from the "grey masses". Of course space ships are kind of weathering over time (not to mention laser hits!), but there should also be ships around that have just left the paint shop!

That's why I kept "Griff's alternative Cobra Mk III", although it uses a different model, somewhere in between the classic and the core shipset, and that's why I started to make company freighter textures. You can see the colour of a Evergreen... um... Everspace Anaconda or a DHL... um... DHELL Python from outside the scanner distance, even under less than optimal lighting conditions, and I'm always happy when I meet one of them - not because I made them but because they look different.

It may seem a little bit childish, but if you look at trucks, trains, planes and even big ships in the real world, it's quite normal. Colouring is part of corporate design and marketing.

[Smivs]

Isn't "Python Clipper" just a marketing name for a luxury variant - leather seats, infotainment system and so on...?

Strictly no, but this comment plus Cody's jokey suggestion did give me a car-related idea that you might like - why not call your edition the Python C-Class?

[Cody]

Deadly serious, me!

[Fritz]

Currently I'm calling it Python S, because with German cars C stands for a very basic model (I'm not even sure if a Golf C had a steering wheel...). S could stand for "speed", "super", or "special", and of course there is the Mercedes S-Class...

I tried to apply the Clipper livery to Griff's model/texture as faithfully as possible, while not completely ignoring the "natural" lines of Griff's design.




It's "core game standard", which means that it doesn't have a RGB emission map with green and red lights (yet).

[Smivs]

UPDATE RELEASE v1.4.4 - 3rd March, 2018

v1.4.4 is now available via the manager. Minor bugfix to shipdata.plist (missing ';')