Re: Elite: Dangerous - and the return

[Diziet Sma]

I keep going, hoping I'm going to finally see something non-insulting from a FD exec.. probably a forlorn hope.. I'd imagine there's been an emergency damage-control meeting going on all day in the Frontier offices.

[Cody]

Perhaps... or maybe they're going full-speed ahead, and damn the torpedoes!

[Diziet Sma]

If they do, I think it will turn out to be more like "Full speed ahead, and damn the icebergs!"

And we all know how that turned out.

[Thargoid]

Even El Reg is covering offline-gate (and there are Oolite players amongst the commentards).

There are indeed - never miss a chance to plug Oolite

[Pleb]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30097229

Even BBC News are going on about it now!

[drew]

I wonder if there is "no such thing as bad publicity" Another twist in the ongoing Elite story. I wish I could write a saga like this!

Cheers,

Drew.

[Yah-Ta-Hey]

Mr. Braben is on the forum... answering questions that seem to be a pick and choose style. He answered a question about offline game. He then answered a question about refunds with a " Why is offline so important to you".... interesting to say the least.

[Pleb]

This answer was slightly comforting:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthrea ... ost1024593

At least now we know that (hopefully) when/if the servers go down the backup will be made available so the game will not be lost.

[Cody]

A couple of cherry-picked answers:

Back during the Kickstarter, we were clear about the vision, to make a phenomenal new sequel to Elite in an online world, which we believe we are about to deliver. At the time we believed we could also offer a good single player experience, and base an acceptable offline-only experience off that. As development has progressed, it has become clear that this last assumption is not the case. That experience would be empty at best, and even that would take a lot of extra work.

It is not to enforce DRM or advertising as you suggest. We will be judged on quality, and the quality of that game experience would be poor, and we don't want to deliver a poor game. To make a richer offline single player experience has always been possible (and still is) but would be a separate game with its own story content. A huge slice of separate work. We have developed a multi-player game with an unfolding story involving the players, and groups collaborating with specific objectives and taking account of all players behaviour. This is what the game is about. Without this it would not be the rich gaming experience that we will deliver, and would be a great disappointment to all players.

I don't pretend it was an easy decision, but it was done to benefit the game as a whole. One thing we have looked at carefully is our requirements of the network connection. For the single player game they are pretty light. I myself have played the game fine on the train using a laptop on a tethered connection over my phone. Given that this is a game which is only available online, this was the decision we took. I am sorry that people are so upset about it, but it was the right decision.

We have no intention of taking the servers down, but I understand what you are getting at. We plan to archive the game from time to time (ie matching client and servers and game world state), and would release such an archive if the servers were to come down. That would also address the issue of how you preserve an online game for the future, from the whole 'retro' perspective.

[Pleb]

So now all we need is an insider at Frontier to leak the server backup and some source code and I'm sure someone could put together an offline version!

Their newsletters are always advertising vacancies...

(For legal purposes I will state I'm joking in case FD monitor this board.)

[Pleb]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthrea ... ost1024623

He uses the same controller as me!

[Disembodied]

I've not paid any attention to this, personally: I backed the Kickstarter and was pleasantly surprised when the Mac version stretch goal was reached. I have no intention of joining multiplayer but for me, the online/offline thing doesn't matter much so I have no dog in this fight. I doubt if I'll devote vast swatches of time to playing E:D, anyway, but I'm glad it's getting made.

What makes me curious, from a game-design point of view, is the idea that an online mode is essential for the game mechanics. Presumably, this is to allow player actions to influence the market and indeed the macro-political background of the game universe. This, to me, seems 1) making a rod for their own backs (if not a baseball bat for their own knackers), and 2) missing what for me is an essential part of Elite gameplay: the feeling of being vanishingly and inconsequentially small.

On point 1), it's just opening the door to all manner of busy little teams discovering exploits and hoovering up billions in the handful of hours it takes to slap on a patch. Point 2) may be more obscure, I don't know: but I look for a sense of scale in my space games, and my SF in general. I want to be bludgeoned by the vastnesses, and I don't feel the need to forever be busting the market here, or tipping the balance of power there. Plus there are so many games out there where you and only you are constantly saving the world/galaxy/universe/multiverse every five minutes, and a change is always pleasant. So on both points, the "Players! YOU can change the galaxy!" schtick isn't something I'm looking for.

It also means that the "evolving, dynamic galaxy" is one where much of the evolution and dynamism will probably emerge from the actions of the players with the most time on their hands. Is it worth it, though? Will it achieve anything that couldn't be done just as well by a few* dice-rolls and a bit of random walking? Or am I missing some essential component of the design?

* for a given value of few

[Diziet Sma]

An interesting, (and entertaining!) Q&A.

Not 100% good news, particularly for those with zero internet access, but considerably reassuring, overall.

[Cody]

What makes me curious, from a game-design point of view, is the idea that an online mode is essential for the game mechanics. Presumably, this is to allow player actions to influence the market and indeed the macro-political background of the game universe. This, to me, seems 1) making a rod for their own backs (if not a baseball bat for their own knackers), and 2) missing what for me is an essential part of Elite gameplay: the feeling of being vanishingly and inconsequentially small.

<nods> Especially #2 - a shame that!

[Diziet Sma]

What makes me curious, from a game-design point of view, is the idea that an online mode is essential for the game mechanics. Presumably, this is to allow player actions to influence the market and indeed the macro-political background of the game universe. This, to me, seems 1) making a rod for their own backs (if not a baseball bat for their own knackers), and 2) missing what for me is an essential part of Elite gameplay: the feeling of being vanishingly and inconsequentially small.

Well, it won't be just the players influencing things.. the NPCs will too.. and as for feeling small and inconsequential, I don't think you'll have too many worries on that score, from what I've seen.

On point 1), it's just opening the door to all manner of busy little teams discovering exploits and hoovering up billions in the handful of hours it takes to slap on a patch. Point 2) may be more obscure, I don't know: but I look for a sense of scale in my space games, and my SF in general. I want to be bludgeoned by the vastnesses, and I don't feel the need to forever be busting the market here, or tipping the balance of power there. Plus there are so many games out there where you and only you are constantly saving the world/galaxy/universe/multiverse every five minutes, and a change is always pleasant. So on both points, the "Players! YOU can change the galaxy!" schtick isn't something I'm looking for.

I think the exploits you mention are unlikely.. every single transaction, even just extracting minerals from a splinter, is authenticated and moderated by the main server..

When it comes to being "bludgeoned by the vastnesses", I think you'll find it will do that to you in spades..

The sense of scale is there, as is the freedom of action. So far as 'changing the galaxy' goes, if you DO happen to choose to weigh in on some particular conflict, for example, there are going to be plenty of others weighing in as well, on both sides.. if you do succeed in changing things, it'll have been a hard-fought campaign, I'd say.

It also means that the "evolving, dynamic galaxy" is one where much of the evolution and dynamism will probably emerge from the actions of the players with the most time on their hands. Is it worth it, though? Will it achieve anything that couldn't be done just as well by a few* dice-rolls and a bit of random walking? Or am I missing some essential component of the design?

I'd say yes, you are missing something.. the way events unfold will influence the kind of missions available, which could further influence events, and so on.. factor in all the players and NPCs, and I suspect some surprising things could take place.

Yes, those playing long hours might have some more impact on events, but it's also a DAMN big galaxy.. if you move away from the central worlds, other players, and their influence, could easily be few and far between. Even with hundreds of thousands of players, it won't be too hard to get well away from almost all of them, if you wish. From what I've seen, a very large percentage of the players are keen on being involved in some fashion with their chosen faction, be it Federation, Empire or Alliance.. that means they'll be sticking to that region of space. All told, that's a bubble some 250 light years across at most, with thousands of systems in it.. once you've built up a kitty and equipped your ship, a few hours flight is enough to take you beyond those borders.

(And if you really want to get away from things, you could always join the First Great Expedition. They're determined to reach the galactic core.. a task expected to take several years, at least. They are developing a pretty sound plan to accomplish it, too. And there are a good many different roles involved in that project alone.. it's intriguing enough that I've signed on myself.)