Oolite in the post-PC era?

[Wildeblood]

My windows 7 computer went kaput a week ago tonight, so earlier this week - reluctantly - I went out and bought a new computer. I'm not happy about this turn of events, since I strongly believe that the displacement of wintel by android technology is inevitable and overdue, and had assumed when I bought the Win7 machine that it would be the last PC I would ever own.

So, five days after my dream of owning a self-esteem-boosting Galaxy tab S evaporated as I forked over my saved money for a Windows 8 laptop instead... I have buyer's remorse, just as I knew even at the time that I would. I can categorically state that windows 8 is the most unfriendly windows so far. I believe even more firmly that the PC industry is living on borrowed time. I'm certain that the one and only reason anyone still buys PCs is because they have keyboards. If I could go back to last Monday night at Officeworks I would buy the Tab S and a good quality bluetooth keyboard and be happy that I'd probably never touch another damned PC as long as I live.

So my question for the rest of you is, why is anyone wasting their time and effort still developing software for this dinosaur technology? Shouldn't anyone who cares about Oolite - or any other PC software project - be concentrating 100% of their effort on porting to Android before they suffer the inevitable experience of finding themselves alone wondering where everyone else went?

[Smivs]

I think the death of the PC is overstated. Certainly they are not as universal as they once were, because once upon a time you only had a PC and it had to do everything for you...email, web browsing, multimedia etc as well as being (for many people) their workstation, or even workplace.
Today, though, smartphones and tablets can perform many of the more common functions - everything most people probably want in fact - and can do it anywhere. What they can't do is become a functional workplace (even if the work is hobby/fun), or compete with say gaming consoles. A PC can, so for many users a PC is essential and this is unlikely to change. The PC is here to stay for the forseeable future.
If any segment is likely to go into terminal decline it is more likely to be the laptop. A laptop cannot compete with a high-spec desktop for work/business/science applications, or serious gaming, and cannot compete with tablets/smartphones for sheer portable convenience.
As to porting Oolite to Android, yes, it would be a positive move I'm sure, although I'm not sure how you could actually play Oolite on a tablet. As Android is a flavour of Linux, it would probably be quite straightforward (says he in ignorance).

[cim]

As Android is a flavour of Linux, it would probably be quite straightforward (says he in ignorance).

I believe there are two major technical problems.
1) objc and gnustep - and all the various dependency libraries - are still so far as I can tell a bit iffy on Android. It's better than it used to be and maybe now actually workable.
2) Android is an Open GLES system, not an Open GL one. With glshim (as used on Pandora) this is no longer unsolvable, though I don't know what the 3-D hardware acceleration capabilities on a typical Android device are. We don't have really high hardware requirements, but still more than many games do.

And one major non-technical problem: we don't currently have anyone on the dev team with the time and expertise with the Android environment to create and maintain a port. If anyone reading this does have the time and expertise we'd obviously be happy to talk through issues in porting, and incorporate the necessary '#if ANDROID' patches into the repository.

[Diziet Sma]

I can categorically state that windows 8 is the most unfriendly windows so far. I believe even more firmly that the PC industry is living on borrowed time
...
So my question for the rest of you is, why is anyone wasting their time and effort still developing software for this dinosaur technology?

Don't conflate Windoze and PCs.. the demise of one will not lead to the demise of the other. There are far better OSs out there that run on the same hardware. OSs whose development is not driven by a marketing department.

And you ought to know better than to be a beta-tester for Micro$oft, anyway.. every alternate edition of Windows is a pile of crap that subsequently gets fixed in the next release.. Win98 was a bugfixed Win95, XP was a bugfixed WinME, Win7 was a bugfixed Vista, and whatever comes after Win8 will most likely sort out that particular POS.

Do a rollback to Win7 on your new machine.. you'll probably have a bit of fun getting all the drivers installed for the new hardware, but it's not that difficult.

[Ranthe]

I can categorically state that windows 8 is the most unfriendly windows so far. I believe even more firmly that the PC industry is living on borrowed time
...
So my question for the rest of you is, why is anyone wasting their time and effort still developing software for this dinosaur technology?

Don't conflate Windoze and PCs.. the demise of one will not lead to the demise of the other. There are far better OSs out there that run on the same hardware. OSs whose development is not driven by a marketing department.

And just because PC sales may be dropping it doesn't mean that the PC platform itself is dying - it most likely means that PC themselves are living longer because the cost of hardware upgrade doesn't give the corresponding boost in performance that it used to AND that most modern PCs are already plenty powerful enough for the average user without getting the latest hardware.

And you ought to know better than to be a beta-tester for Micro$oft, anyway.. every alternate edition of Windows is a pile of crap that subsequently gets fixed in the next release.. Win98 was a bugfixed Win95, XP was a bugfixed WinME, Win7 was a bugfixed Vista, and whatever comes after Win8 will most likely sort out that particular POS.

In other words, Windows versions are like the inverse of Star Trek movies - all odd-numbered Star Trek movie releases were crap, all even-numbered Windows releases are crap

(Though to be honest I've had no particular issues with Vista that makes me want to drive a stake through its heart, that particular honour was for Windows ME. Having said that, I'm still planning to move to dual-booting Linux Mint by the end of the year to avoid being left high-and-dry when Vista support runs out and having to pay $$$ I don't have for an MS OS I don't want.)

[another_commander]

This discussion seems to fit better Outworld. Topic moved.

[Eric Walch]

… you could actually play Oolite on a tablet. As Android is a flavour of Linux, it would probably be quite straightforward (says he in ignorance).

Linux is based on Unix, just as the Mac is. So, indeed there are big similarities. But, beside the internal technicalities, it will be a major effort to write an interface for the tablet. The keys must probably be replaced by hitting HUD-elements with your fingertips etc. Navigating can be done with the motion sensor in the tablet etc. To dock you must than turn around on your own axis with the tablet in your hand, without getting dizzy.

[spud42]

there are ways to make win8 work the way we are used to. it can be made to boot to desktop etc.... a little google time will sort that out.

as for the death of PC ? not going to happen.... as Dizzy said windows is only one of many OS's that can be installed. There are literally hundreds of versions of Linux to try.As also stated you can wipe it and install win 7, you wouldn't be the first!!! why not dual boot? hell ive seen systems with quad boot and even more! Windows,Mac OS,Linux and solaris/BSD cant remember which of the last two it was.

Android is a phone os trying to run tablets. it is a messy abortion of an OS on a linux kernal. would not be my idea of fun to try serious gaming on it.

QuadHD will drive the next generations of graphics cards. Both flavours of consoles are based in x86 chips so are mor PC like than ever . however PC gaming will still be better due to the fact that consoles are static and the PC gets better and better as new boards,memory,graphics cards are developed. most games are now available on all 3 systems PS4,xBone and PC. PC game is cheaper and the graphics detail can bu turned up so they look better.

PC is fighting back!!!

[maik]

So my question for the rest of you is, why is anyone wasting their time and effort still developing software for this dinosaur technology? Shouldn't anyone who cares about Oolite - or any other PC software project - be concentrating 100% of their effort on porting to Android before they suffer the inevitable experience of finding themselves alone wondering where everyone else went?

To me, there is one deal breaker when it comes to Android: security updates (in fact any update or upgrade) rarely make it to the end-user. While Google fixes broken stuff, the vast majority of device manufacturers couldn't care less and simply don't distribute the fixes. Or if they do, then with a months long delay that is completely absurd considering there is a known vulnerability. I don't think there is a single device that has received more than one upgrade. So you have to throw away devices and buy new ones regularly. In contrast, a PC that ran XP is likely to run Win7 as well (or pick your flavor of Linux). Same for Macs with OS X (ok, my early 2008 MBA doesn't run the latest one. It still receives security updates though). Same for iOS devices.

As long as the update/upgrade problem has not been solved, I consider Android broken and unfit for use.

[spud42]

As long as the update/upgrade problem has not been solved, I consider Android broken and unfit for use.

Yes.. Andriod is the Least desirable desktop OS.

[Zireael]

Device manufacturers simply don't care about upgrades - hells, my phone only upgraded from 1.5 to 1.6 and then I think to 2.1 and you can't get Froyo on it even though it's capable enough (LG Optimus).

[Pleb]

Android should be left as a tablet/smartphone OS. I don't particularly like Windows but its a necessary evil...

...I say necessary as I don't like change and therefore find it hard to use OSX and Linux!

[Smivs]

I don't like change and therefore find it hard to use OSX and Linux!

Seriously, a change to something like Linux Mint is probably less of a shock than changing from one Windows incarnation to the next.

[Ranthe]

I don't like change and therefore find it hard to use OSX and Linux!

Seriously, a change to something like Linux Mint is probably less of a shock than changing from one Windows incarnation to the next.

<nods> That's what I've been finding with playing around on Mint 16 / 17 on VirtualBox VMs under Windows Vista, the main adjustment issue is getting used to how you install software under Linux via a package manager instead of downloading directly off websites. If you think of the Linux Software Centre as an app store for Linux though, it all falls into place...

And the change aspect is further minimised if like me you've already been using open-source software like Firefox, Thunderbird, GIMP, Krita, OpenOffice / LibreOffice - and of course Oolite - on Windows

[Diziet Sma]

I don't like change and therefore find it hard to use OSX and Linux!

Seriously, a change to something like Linux Mint is probably less of a shock than changing from one Windows incarnation to the next.

<nods> Heck, my brother is damn-near an IT luddite.. (he refuses to deal with zipped files, for instance) but after a problem where the laptop he runs his business on got infected, and I pointed out that he could totally avoid virus problems by switching to Linux Mint, he was convinced enough to give it a shot.. he thinks it's great, and has never looked back. I put Win7 on it in a Virtual Machine, in case he needed it, but to date, I don't think he's even used it.