OXZ and balance

[Redspear]

@ Redspear, I think there are plans to have the manager open links to the 'Information url' (usually the wiki page) in a browser window, sometime in the future.
Re the colours on the indicator, my main inspiration was not traffic lights but the test strips I use to check the water quality in my aquaria.

Ah, ok, so it may make more sense in future (by my way of thinking at least)...

I used to keep fish too! (be interested in what fish you have but this probably isn't the place ) but even for me, when I see red and green isolated from such a 'strip' then the traffic light association is a bit overpowering... whether it's suggested or not.
I did look at your constrictor page and thought that your system worked in that particular environment...

@ Thargoid, I absolutely agree.

I agree too... Oooh, concensus

[Diziet Sma]

(assuming that oolite.org remains the only download site for the game?)

It isn't, and hasn't been for a long time.. pretty much every major Linux distribution out there makes Oolite available in their package management system. They generally only go with official stable releases though, and I expect it won't be long before 1.80 is made available.

[Switeck]

Question:- How would the levelIndicator deal with Long Range Scanner? it's a testing tool which escaped into the wild and is basically a total cheat. levelIndicator has no facility to quantify 'cheat' OXPs/OXZs, or even those like my example above of ExtraFuelTanks which help the player to a lesser or greater extent. levelIndicator is not concerned with 'Easiness' at all, but this is a pre-requisite of a balance Indicator.
LRS is easy using the new Balance Indicator - it is Purple, "Significant bias in player's favour. Makes the game much easier".
And I don't think that having a linked explanation page comes close to a complete, at-a-glance indicator for convenience.

Thus, the cheat tag is probably needed...even beyond trying to define how a cheat "fits" in terms of game balance.

There could also be joke (tag!) items/equipment, of which the classic unwanted furry companion would come to mind.

[Svengali]

At-a-glance means that you are able to look at it and see immediately what it indicates, right? It does not mean that you have to re-read anything and it also means that the graphical representation is clear. It does not mean that you know the details from the very first beginning - although it helps if e.g. red is used for danger / stronger opponents / shifting balance in favour of NPCs, etc. In the end only colors, bars and simple piktograms are fullfilling the requirements. The coloring itself is a design decision, but using the Wikis colorscheme as startpoint helps to create a corporate identity and supports the pages which are using this feature. If you really need more colors use complementary colors based on the Wikis colors.

The LevelIndicators are doing a better job here as they are showing only one color bar - the higher the number the longer and more reddish gets the bar. You don't have to read the numbers, you know already what the indicator means just by taking a quick look. Displaying all 4 colors in your example is confusing and users will need to look closer to see where the marker is.

The second point was that there is already a mechanism that works. It was done with difficulty in mind, but as I've said you can easily expand it, e.g. by taking the images and turning the red color in green or blue or whatever, upload a few additional ones and change the underlaying template to use these as well. And it's really not the case that all or most pages are using only the zero level - the Wiki provides this info check the 'What links here'. There's no point for maintaining different mechanisms - manpower is not endless. Useability is even easier with the LevelIndicators, because editors only need one template and don't have to use different names (e.g. simply {{OXPLevel|3}}).

And when I've said that we have now Parser Functions and the Semantic Media Wiki Extension means that using a image alone is pointless as it doesn't provide any further functionality and using the explanation text in the picture is a no-go. The Wiki has more powerful features now, do the step forward. I can understand that the Wiki syntax is not always easy and at times limited so everything needs some work.

Last but not least - no mechanism will catch all possible exceptions, but a standard helps to reduce confusion. The Wiki is after all not a picture book. It should provide accessible information which also means to highlight important bits. Too many is confusing, but not enough is not good as well. It is (or should be) a collaboration tool.

Anyway. It's your fire, but I hope that these thoughts have some value for you.

[Redspear]

(assuming that oolite.org remains the only download site for the game?)

It isn't, and hasn't been for a long time.. pretty much every major Linux distribution out there makes Oolite available in their package management system. They generally only go with official stable releases though, and I expect it won't be long before 1.80 is made available.

Ah, once again my ignorance becomes apparent

In that case, I can see the oxz system as potentially very useful to someone who downloaded from such a source.

Last but not least - no mechanism will catch all possible exceptions, but a standard helps to reduce confusion. The Wiki is after all not a picture book. It should provide accessible information which also means to highlight important bits. Too many is confusing, but not enough is not good as well. It is (or should be) a collaboration tool.

I'm reading that as meaning that it's there to be read and considered. I'd have thought that the audience for a game like oolite was more likely to read and consider such things anyway (by which I think I'm agreeing with you here Svengali).

I'm still not convinced that there's a need for this (maybe that's my cue to leave this thread to people who can see such a requirement ).
Yes, a system everyone(/most people) likes that achieves the goal would be nice but who is it for?
Beginners???

When i was a beginner, I found things were very much hinted at by the function of the oxp (e.g. new ship - better check that out; tweaks commodities - that could change things; don't know what it does - I'll look it up). I've seen posts from people (outside this thread) suggesting such an idea as useful but I can't recall anyone suggesting it would be useful to them personally. I'd read the wiki and I'm not the sort of person to find reading manuals entertaining.

Assuming for a moment that there is such a need, and that having the effects explained on a wiki page is insufficient, then I have a suggestion.

• One colour: red.
  Meaning: Warning - this oxz can significantly alter game difficulty/balance
  Use: A listing either has that colour tag/phrase or or it doesn't.
  Frequency: At the discretion of each oxp author.

It's simple: only one colour, no 'direction'. I'd have thought that red intuitively suggests a warning for a great many people (or would at least highlight it as different when listings were either red or not) and it encourages a proper investigation via the wiki. If one is unconcerned by a warning flag then perhaps one is also less likley to care in which 'direction' it leans.

It's functional: if an oxp/z alters balance a little rather than a lot then it becomes even more subjective and less clear as to in which direction those effects might lean. Less significant = less important that it be highlighted. Not highlighting such oxps makes things less confusing whilst still addressing the main concerns.

At a glance? The red flag would be made all the more conspicuous by the absence of other colours. It's there or it isn't. It stands out; it has no contemporaries.

Intuitive? Strong association with the colour, no sliding scale and (I suspect) less subjective categorization.

Don't like it? It would be optional. Other than that, sorry, I'm out of ideas for now

It's certainly not perfect but it does a job, which some people seem to think is important (and may well be) and it does it with minimal fuss.

The wiki pages themselves might have whatever system the author likes as, after all, he or she probably knows the effects of the oxp fairly well. A red warning line at the top could be something that they could choose to add if they wish.

Well? Am I an idiot?... It's ok doc, I can take it