Core and OXP ships with docking problems

[Diziet Sma]

The new build (1708635) with fixes for testing, is now online.

[Neelix]

Looking good so far... I just watched a squad of Viper Interceptors docking. Each one came to a complete stop as it approached each docking waypoint, then moved on to the next, before docking safely. On the whole a much more careful and successful approach to what they were doing previously.

Going off the topic a bit, I have observed an issue with the comms though. Comms from ships waiting to dock are very obviously not based on what's actually happening. e.g. While the squadron was docking, one of the VI's further back in the queue made a smart-arse remark about letting 'civvies' dock first. perhaps this would be less obvious if there were a a wider selection of messages in the mix, but I can't help wondering if there's any way to fine tune the comms message selection to better match the situation.

Other examples of this: pirates referring to my lone ship as a convoy, or pirates sending messages to non-existent compatriots when they are the last ones standing... (Though I suppose the latter could be explained away as them wanting to fool the player into thinking they have reinforcements beyond their scanner range )

- Neelix

[Diziet Sma]

Going off the topic a bit, I have observed an issue with the comms though. Comms from ships waiting to dock are very obviously not based on what's actually happening. e.g. While the squadron was docking, one of the VI's further back in the queue made a smart-arse remark about letting 'civvies' dock first. perhaps this would be less obvious if there were a a wider selection of messages in the mix, but I can't help wondering if there's any way to fine tune the comms message selection to better match the situation.

Other examples of this: pirates referring to my lone ship as a convoy, or pirates sending messages to non-existent compatriots when they are the last ones standing... (Though I suppose the latter could be explained away as them wanting to fool the player into thinking they have reinforcements beyond my scanner range )

Well, those are not actually part of the core game.. all of those comms messages are part of Comms Pack A.

As for the docking though, man.. that was a joy to behold!

Orions, Manta Rays, Barracudas, Viper Interceptors, Veloce e Appuntitas, all docking as if they were on rails. After an hour in the Aegis, there was nobody waiting to dock at all. Before, there would have been a couple of dozen, at least!

Only one ship seemed to have problems, a DTT Galaxy Liner. Nothing like before, but it seemed to be having trouble getting a good alignment, and was either below or above the line all the way up the approach. In the end, it went into the slot at about a 30° angle, by the looks, and crashed and burned. The rotation was good, but it was well "below" the ideal line of approach.

@ cim: I'm wondering just how you implemented this fix.. is there some kind of 'boundary condition', specs-wise, in which ships over a certain level get 'throttled back'? Because if so, perhaps the Galaxy Liner is coming in just under the bar, and thus having problems. The relevant specs are:

Code: Select all

D.T.T. Galaxy Liner:
	max_flight_pitch = 1;
	max_flight_roll = 2.8;
	max_flight_yaw = 1;
	max_flight_speed = 320;
	thrust = 32;

On the matter of the Station avoidance code, though, I don't think I can say it was a complete success. Whilst there was only the one death (see above) in my second test-run, which is the one I'm referring to above, the first was very different.

First time around, I decided to go pottering about the system for an hour before returning, as I'd noticed things were usually heavily backed up by then, and I wanted to see if the fix had made a difference. I was disappointed on my return, to see the usual crowd demanding to dock. However, it turned out that I'd forgotten to remove my copy of 249th Naval Reserve from my trunk installation when I got rid of it from 1.80. Thus, there were once again far too many purple lollipops on-screen, and this seemed to be the cause of the docking delays.

A couple of ships would dock, then there would be long periods of nothing happening, docking or launching, for some time. So far as I could see, nobody was even attempting to get positioned in the corridor. Eventually, one or two would dock, and the pattern would then repeat. Frustration appeared to be high, with lots of ships zooming about, and I saw 5 collisions with the station in as many minutes. After some time, I shut things down, removed the 249th and tried again, with the results I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

So not only are ships still failing to avoid crashing into the station, if anything, under some conditions, it may be worse than before. Then there is the matter of the 249th itself. At one time, it was a useful OXP which helped to compensate for the inadequacies of the core Viper patrol system. However, now that patrols are much better organised in 1.80, the presence of so many ships in a policing role is severely unbalancing, and seems to cause major problems in the station aegis, for reasons unknown. I would suggest that perhaps it be designated as a "known problems" OXP for 1.80, at least.

[Norby]

Incidentally is there any good reason to disallow *loading* a saved game while in space?

You mean "Pause / F2 / End Game and Return to Menu / Load Commander"?

[Neelix]

Incidentally is there any good reason to disallow *loading* a saved game while in space?

You mean "Pause / F2 / End Game and Return to Menu / Load Commander"?

I mean "Pause / F2 / Load commander".
I can't think of any good reason to force the "End Game and Return to Menu" step.

- Neelix

[Smivs]

I can't think of any good reason to force the "End Game and Return to Menu" step.

...except that your 'saved' ship is at a particular station in a specific system, not at a random location in space which could be anywhere.

[Neelix]

I can't think of any good reason to force the "End Game and Return to Menu" step.

...except that your 'saved' ship is at a particular station in a specific system, not at a random location in space which could be anywhere.

... and I would expect to end up back at that station when I load the game, with any progress since saving lost, why is this an issue?

- Neelix

[cim]

I can't think of any good reason to force the "End Game and Return to Menu" step.

It's not necessarily a good reason, but:
- you can't display a "demo ship" - i.e. the spinning one on a GUI screen - while in flight
- Load Commander has one of those

[Neelix]

I can't think of any good reason to force the "End Game and Return to Menu" step.

It's not necessarily a good reason, but:
- you can't display a "demo ship" - i.e. the spinning one on a GUI screen - while in flight
- Load Commander has one of those

ahhh. Well that sort of technicality of the implementation is at least a reason that makes sense to me.

Thanks.

- Neelix

[cim]

Only one ship seemed to have problems, a DTT Galaxy Liner. Nothing like before, but it seemed to be having trouble getting a good alignment, and was either below or above the line all the way up the approach. In the end, it went into the slot at about a 30° angle, by the looks, and crashed and burned. The rotation was good, but it was well "below" the ideal line of approach.

Strange - I've just tried it and three out of three docked successfully. Nothing obviously wrong with the ship. (It's not a boundary condition fix, and those specs are well below what would have caused problems before, I think)

A couple of ships would dock, then there would be long periods of nothing happening, docking or launching, for some time. So far as I could see, nobody was even attempting to get positioned in the corridor. Eventually, one or two would dock, and the pattern would then repeat. Frustration appeared to be high, with lots of ships zooming about, and I saw 5 collisions with the station in as many minutes. After some time, I shut things down, removed the 249th and tried again, with the results I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

I'll have a look at that OXP specifically later.

[Norby]

I can't think of any good reason to force the "End Game and Return to Menu" step.

It's not necessarily a good reason, but:
- you can't display a "demo ship" - i.e. the spinning one on a GUI screen - while in flight
- Load Commander has one of those

How about a workaround: do the End Game, then instantly a Load Commander?
Should rename to End Game and Load to mention there is no return.

[Diziet Sma]

Only one ship seemed to have problems, a DTT Galaxy Liner. Nothing like before, but it seemed to be having trouble getting a good alignment, and was either below or above the line all the way up the approach. In the end, it went into the slot at about a 30° angle, by the looks, and crashed and burned. The rotation was good, but it was well "below" the ideal line of approach.

Strange - I've just tried it and three out of three docked successfully. Nothing obviously wrong with the ship. (It's not a boundary condition fix, and those specs are well below what would have caused problems before, I think)

Ok.. so it was just "one of those things" that once in a while, somehow goes wrong.. Like the Worm I forget to mention in the 249th-corrupted test.. made a perfect docking approach to the station.. except he was maybe 250 metres offset to the side of the line, all the way in! Naturally, it didn't end well.

I can live with that.. occasional accidents can be put down to pilot error, or equipment malfunction. At least with the fix, it's no longer several crashes per hour. Good job!

Edit: oh yeah.. also, on the second test run, I saw a just-launched Viper who was on a collision-course with the station buoy make a last-minute change of course. He acted a bit shaken up for a minute after that.. I guess he's learned not to text and drive at the same time!

[Neelix]

oh yeah.. also, on the second test run, I saw a just-launched Viper who was on a collision-course with the station buoy make a last-minute change of course. He acted a bit shaken up for a minute after that.. I guess he's learned not to text and drive at the same time!

Do you have YAH installed?

I just watched several Viper Interceptors have near misses with the bouy, and one who crashed into it.
I noticed that as they approached it they would jink up and down several times as if seeking a way around it but not enough to avoid it. I'm wondering if the AI is expecting a much smaller station bouy than the YAH billboard, so is finding it harder to find the shortest course around it.

- Neelix

[Diziet Sma]

Do you have YAH installed?

Yes.. in my case, he got around it ok.

[cim]

Edit: oh yeah.. also, on the second test run, I saw a just-launched Viper who was on a collision-course with the station buoy make a last-minute change of course. He acted a bit shaken up for a minute after that.. I guess he's learned not to text and drive at the same time!

The fix for the docking broke some things in other areas. I think they should be fixed in the current build, but I need to test them more.