The Honourable Guild of Test Pilots

[Duggan]

I am currently testing this misjump oxp but often find I have witchspace sickness after about three misjumps ,I have not found much difference yet between this and previous releases but have to admit I am trying this oxp , not in my main game and am in that nearly always mostly harmless or harmless. I am tempted to try this oxp in my main game to see if any difference is encountered in a game where I am deadly.

[cim]

Thanks for the information, cim. Might I ask on what probability hunters are added (to any route) and whether that probability is affected by system government type?

Yes, but it's not a simple answer.

Essentially you get more hunters in Corporate Systems and fewer in Feudal systems (but slightly more than you'd expect from that pattern in Anarchies), and more hunters in Industrial systems (because if there are more traders there are more hunters, and Industrial systems in 1.77 have more traders)

The WP route has 1 (always at least 1) to 15 hunters. In practice in a Corporate State you'd expect about as many hunters as initial traders (2 to 15 depending on economy); in a Feudal you'd expect about a quarter as many hunters as traders (so maybe 3 of them in a PI Feudal)

The PS route has around 10% (randomised) of the numbers of the WP route, which will usually round to 0 or sometimes 1, though you might get three in exceptionally rare cases in Industrial Corporates. There's then a 100% chance in Corporate States of having exactly one extra added, smoothly dropping to 0% for Anarchy systems.


In 1.79 it works completely differently: essentially the system's stations launch each of the three types of hunter packs (none of which really have a 1.77.1 analogue) at a rate based on how attractive the system is to them, and the game then works out based on that rate how many packs might currently be going about their business in the system, given reasonable guesses at death rates from piracy, time to complete a patrol, and for the witchspace-capable packs, time to return from a patrol in a different system. The stations then continue to launch hunters at (on average) that calculated rate while the player is in the system - and witchspace-capable packs may jump in based on the estimated rates for nearby systems - so the total number of hunters in the system should remain roughly constant over time. The total number of hunters is considerably higher than in 1.77 - especially in the safer systems - because they're added as packs rather than solo ships; the total number of packs is probably comparable or perhaps even lower.

[SirArian]

As to the price of your ship: yes, your ship seems well priced compare to the Asp. But/so perhaps the Asp is itself overpriced!

According to this guide my ship should be 210,000... Which seems to be way to cheap. So, I altered the formula a little bit to include supply and demand (If you are interested I can give you the formula) and got 232,500. Which still seems like a really low price, but it is a little better. What do you think of 232,500 Cr for the price?

[UK_Eliter]

@cim: thanks for the information. 1.79 sounds rather sophisticated - excellent stuff.

[UK_Eliter]

@SirArian

I think that that (232, 500) is still a little too much, given that a Cobra Mk III and equally a Cobra Rapier cost 150, 000. Still, the price of the Asp does through me - although I note that Asps do have 5 energy banks.

Perhaps I myself would set the price at around 225, 000.

You might want to have a look at the charts - and especially the 'Between 200k Cr and 300k Cr' chart - here.

Does anyone else have a comment?

[cim]

Does anyone else have a comment?

A couple of thoughts:

1) The core game ship prices are pretty arbitrary - the Asp and FDL are 2-3 times the price of the Cobra III, but they're only very arguably better than it in the "heavy fighter/interceptor" role, and considerably worse in most others. Similarly the Boa II is only very slightly more expensive than the Boa, but the Boa is over twice the price of the Python. Throw in OXPs and what consistency was left goes too.

2) No ship price in Oolite makes much sense even in isolation: if you have 250k to spend on a ship, then you can spend 150k on the hull and 100k on equipment and be the toughest ship in the game by a massive margin ... or you can spend 250k on the hull and be a very expensive target. Almost all the ships are massively overpriced compared with everything else in the game.

So between those I'd say pick a price to the nearest 100k that feels about right for the power of the ship and how long you want people to have to save up to be able to buy one (bearing in mind they'll get about 100k trade-in on the initial Cobra III), and then put some random digits in the (ten)thousand columns so it doesn't feel awkwardly rounded.

[SirArian]

I think what I am going to do is make it 215,000 Cr. That is the base price according to that formula, plus 5000 which I added to make up for the extra passenger berth, and the small size. It wasn't easy for my engineers to pack all that into such a small hull! I think I will use that formula as a base for all my ships, because then at least my ships will be consistently priced, both with themselves and the Cobra 3.
Thank you both for testing my ship! I think it is now ready to release.

EDIT: Or maybe not... It seems something is wrong with my NPC lasers. Namely, they don't exist. I can't figure out why though. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Norby]

It seems something is wrong with my NPC lasers.

Do not use EQ_ prefix in shipdata (contrary to shipyard).

[SirArian]

It seems something is wrong with my NPC lasers.

Do not use EQ_ prefix in shipdata (contrary to shipyard).

That worked, thanks!

[SirArian]

I have a few more ships ready for testing, if you are interested. Really, though, if you don't want to test all three, the SpaceLiner is the only one I am worried about right now.

First, the SKS SpaceLiner. It is a cheap cargo hauler, developed as an alternative to the Python. It is faster than the Python, (0.35 LM) but is considerably less maneuverable, which is what I am worried about. I think it may be too sluggish for a player ship... Either that or it needs Thargoid Lasers. (Also, it will crash into the space station if you have it pointed at it when the Torus Drive masslocks. You've been warned.)

Second, the SKS Rhino. A more expensive, but much better cargo ship. 500+50 TC cargo, 0.25 LS, 7 energy banks, and 8 missile pylons.

And last, but not least, is a remake of a Frontier ship, the Panther Clipper Mark II. If I can get some people who actually played Frontier to test this one, that would be great, since I really want it to be very close to the original Panther Clipper. It flies at 0.25 LM as well, but carries 1000 TC cargo. And will surely splat on any station you hyperdrive into. (It says on the Wiki that the original has 6g thrust, so I gave it a thrust value of 6... Be careful where you point it, and you should be just fine.) It also costs just over 1.5 million credits.

Have fun trying them, and thank you for any suggestions you may have as to how to make them better.

[SirArian]

The hijacked ship is very rare...

I saw it... Those ships are hard to kill, even with two military lasers. And it was just after I had started a fresh game, so I was in a Cobra Mark III, no missiles, (had wasted them all on a pirate in Lave... Which, in case you were wondering, survived) and my laser was broken. (I have Laser Booster OXP installed) Anyway, I didn't even live long enough for it to get over to me, but I saw it flickering in the distance...

[Diogenese Senna]

I have a few more ships ready for testing, if you are interested.

Downloaded and killing, urm, testing them.

Edit Extra : Just flown the Spaceliner. Takes a bit of handling, as indicated, but that made it more interesting to fly than the usual 'nippy' ships. The slow handling is made up for by the extra missiles and slightly stronger hull.

[UK_Eliter]

I am currently testing this misjump oxp but often find I have witchspace sickness after about three misjumps ,I have not found much difference yet between this and previous releases but have to admit I am trying this oxp , not in my main game and am in that nearly always mostly harmless or harmless. I am tempted to try this oxp in my main game to see if any difference is encountered in a game where I am deadly.

Duggan, I've just seen this post. Thanks for writing it.

There are indeed only small differences between this version of the OXP and other versions. Moreover, a few of those differences will, indeed, be more visible to higher-ranked commanders. The main point of putting this version of the OXP out to test was simply to establish that nothing went really badly wrong. Still, I was hoping also to get feedback of a more general kind - so thanks for what you say about witchspace sickness. That (getting it after about three misjumps) does seem a bit too common. (But) does that happen (or tend to happen) when you have ended up in irradiated interstellar space? (If you don't know what I am talking about, then the answer is no!) At any rate: in my version of the OXP (which I'll release soon) I've slightly reduced the chance of getting sick.

I should ask, also, whether you've seen interesting things such as interstellar pirates, interstellar asteroids (and even miners), derelicts, and the like . . .

[SirArian]

I have a few more ships ready for testing, if you are interested.

Downloaded and killing, urm, testing them.

Edit Extra : Just flown the Spaceliner. Takes a bit of handling, as indicated, but that made it more interesting to fly than the usual 'nippy' ships. The slow handling is made up for by the extra missiles and slightly stronger hull.

Thanks for testing! That's what I was hoping. I wanted it to be usable, but to have some trade off for being able to get a cargo hauler so early in the game. (If you can find one before damaging your Cobra 3 too much the trade in value of the cobra will actually pay for the SpaceLiner.) If you think they are ready, (and no one else finds bugs) I'll go ahead and repackage them with a ReadMe file and officially release them.

[Cody]

Have you got the right stuff? Have you got what it takes to patiently follow NPCs around, observing their actions and reactions, noting and reporting any oddities? Can you play the dumb end-user who does unexpected things - crazy stuff those boffins simply cannot predict? You would need to be an experienced pilot who has completed all the native missions, be in possession of an iron-assed ship (preferably an Oolite core ship), and to know your way around the Eight.

Two test pilots are wanted to test an upcoming OXZ for Oolite 1.79 - there may be dull patrols, there may be combat scenarios, there may even be cake!



Interested? Apply via PM to either myself or Pleb.

The successful applicants will be notified via PM - unsuccessful applicants will be spaced!