Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

[cim]

[*]o If the player has remaining fines or charges to pay they will not be given permission to launch without paying them

What, no option for "full power to engines, fly off the magnetisation wrecking half the station interior, torpedo the bay doors, and then run away very quickly" - or even to threaten that?

It was one of my disappointments with FE2 that after having read that story it wasn't something I could actually do when I needed to leave in a hurry.

[JazHaz]

[*]o If the player has remaining fines or charges to pay they will not be given permission to launch without paying them

What, no option for "full power to engines, fly off the magnetisation wrecking half the station interior, torpedo the bay doors, and then run away very quickly" - or even to threaten that?

It was one of my disappointments with FE2 that after having read that story it wasn't something I could actually do when I needed to leave in a hurry.

I'm not sure. Reading between the lines I think you can take off without permission. However I think the bay doors could be a big problem. In FE2 you could take off without permission, but only IF you were landed at a surface station.

[JazHaz]

Here's the latest proposal from last Friday:

“You're gonna come out rich. We're gonna come out dead.” Ship Crews - Elite Dangerous

So this one was originally written by Sandy, but I'm posting it since he has the day off... *cough* In my best Sandro Sammarco voice:

Hello you lovely backers!

Time for a slightly more speculative and lightweight topic: ship crews. I say speculative because it’s not a critical path feature that is also fairly modular; the backbone ships are all meant to be capable of being flown by a single pilot.

Basic Ship Crew Functionality

• Crew are either human or mechanical
  • Mechanical crew are not sentient – they are basically specialised robots capable of carrying out specific activities
• Crew have a service contract
  • The service contract describes the remuneration package
  • Remuneration is defined as a credit salary (which may be zero based on circumstance) per time period
  • In the case of mechanical crew the remuneration package describes the maintenance schedule which must be paid for and carried out when docked
• Crew can be acquired at docks or through missions and events
• Once obtained, a remuneration package is automatically deducted from the commander’s credit account at the beginning of each time period; pay is in advance
• At any time crew service contracts can be terminated
  • Terminated crew will disembark at the next habitable dock; the commander is reimbursed for any time not served
  • Mechanical crew that are terminated will become cargo canisters
    • If no cargo space is available they will be dismantled (the commander will be warned)
    • Mechanical crew in cargo-form do not require maintenance, and can be activated (re-hired) at any time
    • Failure to follow the maintenance schedule for mechanical crew increases the chance of malfunction
• Crew have a type that determines how they may be used:
  • Gunner: rated to operate turret weaponry
  • Engineer: rated to repair internal modules
  • Pilot: rated to pilot vessels
  • Marine: rated to repel boarders (requires ship internals update)
• Each ship has a maximum number of crew slots for each type
  • When crew slots are filled the commander has access to a number of benefits based on crew type:
  • Gunner: turret weapons are more accurate and can switch targets to make opportune attacks; the more gunners available, the more turret weapons can gain these benefits at the same time
  • Engineer: damaged modules will be repaired; the more engineers available the more modules can be repaired at the same time.
  • Pilot: the commander can initiate defensive manoeuvres, chase target and travel to location orders
  • Marine: marines will automatically engage ship invaders (requires ship internals update)
• Crew have an ability level; this determines the effectiveness of their actions:
  • Gunner: ability determines the accuracy increase
  • Engineer: ability determines the speed of repair
  • Pilot: ability determines the quality of flying
  • Marine: ability determines combat effectiveness (requires ship internals update)

We think this covers at a very basic level what a commander should expect to get from a crew. However, this feature has lots of potential for increased scope should it be deemed worthwhile.

The proposal is also purposefully abstract in terms of player experience. And this is where you guys come in!

As well as the standard requests: does it make sense, what are the pitfalls, what obvious core rules are we missing and so on, I’d also like to know if you think that expanding the system has merit, and if so, what expansion should occur.

For example, one thing that’s been left out is: should crew have some sort of moral standpoint in terms of legal and illegal activities, and if so, what can they do about them? There’s no doubt that such an addition opens up a host of interesting questions, both in terms of what cool game play it might evince, and what complications it might add to implementing the feature.

Another potential investigation would be looking at ways that crew could be part of missions/events and the meta-game, potentially even with their own agendas. Could crew even use or betray you, and if so, why and how?

There’s also another big question of how the feature might change and adapt to the ability to walk around ships. How would their duties be represented to the commander? What additional duties might they be able to perform? What interesting game play might they open up, and what conundrums they would bring with them?

Basically, this is a very interesting topic in my opinion, as ship crews have the potential to be streamlined, tiny (or even non-existent) feature, to a large game play pillar.

That’s enough preamble from me – time for the DDF crew to sound off (and have a great weekend)!

[Wolfwood]

Very basic. The question whether the crew should have moral standpoints is the most interesting. I think they should give Expeditions: Conquistador a good look and see what was done with "crew management" in that game. Basically, you had to choose a crew that fit your morals best as possible, or otherwise you'd run the danger of desertions etc. (e.g. pick a racist crew and going around being nice to natives is not a good strategy to befriend your crew).

Crew members who love exploration or a born traders _should_ object to you suddenly deciding to become a freelance military pilot, bounty hunter or a pirate.

It could be done in a simple enough fashion, so as not to make it too bothersome, but even a small consideration to this direction would greatly enhance the immersion into the game world.

[Diziet Sma]

pay is in advance

Damn.. how come I can never find employers like that?

[Disembodied]

Basically, this is a very interesting topic in my opinion, as ship crews have the potential to be streamlined, tiny (or even non-existent) feature, to a large game play pillar.

I don't think crews can be a "streamlined" or "tiny" part of the game. If there are going to be crew, then they need to have active personalities - otherwise they're just modules (I think the "mechanical crew" option here is a bit of a fudge: if they feel they have to make these available, they should be significantly less capable than living crewmembers. But a better option would be not to have them at all.). But if the crew have personalities, then they have to be at least slightly convincing. The player should be able to believe that the crew exist, and care (or at least consider) what they might think and want - otherwise they're just entries on a spreadsheet, and what's the point? They should have names, faces, origins, backstories, motivations ... these are people that the player would be spending a lot of time with, in close proximity, in dangerous situations: I don't think they could be reduced to nothing more than a "+2 Gunnery" stat.

[Diziet Sma]

Totally agree.

[Cody]

I ain't havin' no mangy crew on my ship... no sir!

[OneoftheLost]

I'm with Cody! If the biggest ship I can fly is a Cobra III, then so be it!

I've always seen Elite/Oolite as ME and MY decisions. It's not captain, its commander. I don't really know how to describe it, but it was the same for me in FFE, I never wanted a crew, and avoided the Asp for that specific reason. I want to sink or swim based on my decisions, and even though crew don't make them for me, they certainly influence my choices. I'm really not sure how to describe it, but I just like not having that extra stress. :\


...although the mechanical crew may not be a bad choice.

[Wolfwood]

I very much agree (and said so in my message above) and want to add that having seen the Panther LX model heavy cargo clipper in the latest newsletter, I felt a sudden urge to pretend to be a Firefly-esque starship captain, leading a ragtag crew from adventure to adventure...

Always before, I've thought of myself a one-man ship pilot...

[Cody]

Someone has to preserve tradition - one man, one ship, against the universe!

[JazHaz]

"We just put Sir Isaac Newton in the driver's seat " Updated Docking and Stations

Hello DDF,

This is going to be a short update to the previous docking proposal because the majority were perfectly happy with the manual docking procedure and I see no reason to change this. I know some had worries about queuing taking too long but I don’t think this will be such an issue. The docking ports are quite large and the throughput should be sufficient to prevent extended waiting.

So instead of reposting all the same content again I’d like to go into more detail about how we’d like automated docking to work based on your feedback and ideas.

Automated Docking

• To be able to use automated docking the player’s ship must have a docking computer module installed and powered
  • These are expensive and take up space
  • Malfunctions can disable the module preventing its use
• Only certain stations can offer automated docking services
  • The docking computer is actually a way for the station to take control of your ship and land it for you
  • More popular stations are likely to offer automated docking
• If a station offers automated docking it will be an option that can be selected when first hailing the station
  • Automated docking is an all or nothing procedure; players need to request it before entering the station and it can’t be disabled until safely docked
  • Players can’t activate automatic docking if they’re already within the station
  • It doesn’t cost anything extra to use automated docking except time
    • It could take significantly longer to automatically dock than if a player were to do it manually (providing they’re sufficiently skilled)

This is a simple rule set but we feel it gives us a way to automatically dock but not remove the need or reason to manually dock from time to time.
Finally I just want to cover some other issues that were raised in the previous proposal.

• Firing a weapon or breaking the speed limit will result in the normal consequences associated with breaking the law
  • It is not our intention to artificially limit your ability to deploy and shoot weapons or fly fast but there will always be consequences to these actions
• Stations will have the ability to fire upon and destroy ships that are breaking the law such as blocking the docking port or landing pads from others
• Rotational correction within the station will alleviate a lot of the difficulties in landing with a spinning station
  • The skill will then be focussed on lining up with the right pad and gently touching down rather than performing constant thruster changes to keep in position
• Docking isn’t as hard as you might think
  • Just because the previous games docking sequences were notorious doesn’t mean this will be, therefore we shouldn't be worrying about automated docking being unavailable some times

Thanks for your time and input. I know we didn't have much of a presence in that topic but I have read all the posts and used the ideas and concerns in this update.

Cheers,
-Mike

Some clarifications from the discussion following this (only quotes from Mike):

We want to make sure players do get a regular bit of manual docking in regardless of equipment installed, hence the reason to make all automated docking reliant on the station and a module as a pair.

Trading and other interfaces are available upon touch down not during the docking procedure.

The automated procedure is meant to allow players to dock without risk and the price is time and lack of manual docking experience. Though how fast could be tuned easily. It also alleviates the need for more interface features to enable and disable such a feature. I also can't see a good reason someone would want to automate only part or many parts of the relatively simple procedure.

Speed limit is just there in case we need it. We don't have to have one nor does it have to be low. Off hand I could say you could from standstill near the station entrance fly in and dock within less than a minute easily after some practise (we had races to see who could dock the fastest from a couple of km away).

[JazHaz]

I brought up a concern on the DDF when the proposal originally came up, about finding a landing pad when the station is spinning, and it got answered here:

Rotational correction within the station will alleviate a lot of the difficulties in landing with a spinning station

So I'm very happy.

[Wolfwood]

Yes, the "magic" rotational correction... :p

[JazHaz]

"I'm cashing you out, Bob" Vouchers in Elite:Dangerous

Goodness Gracious!

That was a bit of a longer break than I anticipated. Please accept my ultra-apologies for the whopping delay in the DDF updates.

But now, we're back!

With vouchers!

At the most basic level, vouchers are receipts for goods and services within the game. They are data elements that can be “cashed in” and sometimes traded for suitable recompense.

This is going to be a topic in two parts.

In the first part (this thread), I want to explain what kinds of vouchers we’re contemplating, how you get them, what rules are associated with them, and of course get lots of lovely feedback both grand and grave from you folk.

In the second part (a thread to start a week later), I want to open debate and get opinion on a somewhat more contentious potential use for vouchers: obtaining them by spending real money. So in this regard, I’ll be asking: do you think that there could be a place for real-cash vouchers and if so, what – if any – limits could/should there be?

And of course, I’m on the lookout for all the potential problems, both obvious and subtle.

Now that thread’s going to be a barnstormer. But first, let’s take a look at what I mean when I say:

Vouchers Part the First

• All vouchers obtained in-game are data elements logged to a specific commander
• Each voucher is valid for at least one particular reward
  • Vouchers may have multiple contacts/rewards attached to them, but only one can be claimed which consumes the voucher
• Vouchers may have expiration timers on them
• Vouchers can be interrogated as elements in the Commander’s Log, detailing:
  • Acquisition details – the circumstances under which the commander obtained the voucher
  • Voucher Information: the actual information that the voucher represents, which may be a bounty, an explorer discovery or a political discovery
  • Trade status: describes whether in addition to the voucher can be traded to other players
  • [Optional]Expiration timer – how long the commander has to cash the voucher in and obtain a reward
  • [Optional]”Cash in Contact” – the voucher may detail a contact who the commander may “cash in” the voucher with to collect a reward
  • [Optional]Reward – the voucher may detail rewards that can claimed by “cashing in”
• If a commander initiates communications with a contact, any vouchers that may be cashed in are automatically updated to show the relevant contact and reward
  • The player is also notified and “cash in” options become available in the communication interface
  • Some contacts may reveal appropriate “cash in contacts” for vouchers that the commander owns but hitherto did not have details for
• Vouchers that can be traded between players show up as items in the player-to-player trade interface
  • When traded to a player the voucher may be consumed

Voucher Types

• Bounties: when a commander destroys a ship that had a bounty on it, the commander is awarded a bounty voucher
  • This voucher is only awarded if the commander scanned the vessel/husk or was the victim of a crime committed by it
  • Multiple bounties may be awarded by a single kill
  • Bounty vouchers cannot be traded
• Explorer discoveries: when a commander makes an exploration discovery (gains information that their galactic map did not have) they are awarded with a discovery voucher
  • This type of voucher covers all aspects of space exploration, including new systems, celestial bodies and points of interest
  • Discovery vouchers can be traded, although doing so consumes them (the recipient’s galactic map is automatically updated)
• Political discovery: when a commander makes a mission/meta-game discovery about a faction they are awarded a political discovery voucher
  • This type of voucher is the standard type of reward for most missions/events
  • This type of voucher is always considered empirical proof of some mission/meta-game fact (e.g. proof of an act of interstellar genocide by one faction against another faction)
  • Political discovery vouchers can be traded freely between players
  • Political discovery vouchers are also treated as flags on a commander and may be used by the mission/event system (e.g. knowing that a faction committed an act of interstellar genocide could be considered a risky proposition)
    • Players can erase political discovery vouchers, forfeiting any potential reward to remove the flag from their commander (though stub information may be retained in the commander’s log for posterity)

Cashing In Vouchers

• Vouchers must be cashed in at an appropriate contact to receive the reward
  • Explorer and Political discovery vouchers and exploration may have multiple contacts and rewards
• Some contacts exist temporarily and personally for a commander, purely to facilitate cashing in a voucher
• The act of cashing in vouchers can have a number of additional effects:
  • It can raise and lower reputations and raise Elite ratings
  • It can be used as a data element by the mission/event system
  • It can update the commander’s log for posterity

Voucher Rewards

• Rewards from cashing in vouchers can take different forms:
  • Credits/debit repayment
  • Ship modules (including exotic modules)
  • Cargo (including rare cargo
  • Reputation changes
  • Mission/Event generation

So, thanks for reading part one of the Voucher’s topic! Hopefully it’s fairly straightforward whilst offering decent flexibility and a neat tie-in to the mission system, but of course I’d like to hear what you folk make of it.

For example, do you think it’s weird that political discoveries can be basically given away like “pass the parcel”? I kind of think it’s a neat, if “gamey” way of allowing missions and events to occur, but perhaps you think it’s too silly that once a political discovery is given away the commander is removed from missions involving it?

Also, I’d love to get your feedback on how I am suggesting exploration discovery vouchers work when traded. Again, it’s pretty arbitrary and “gamey”, but does ensure that explorers are going to get rewards for their efforts, as only they get the option to barter for the discoveries they make whilst recipients can only update their galactic map.

Maybe the vouchers themselves need more (or less) rules? Could it be that a voucher could have additional expiration conditions as well as time? Or should they not even have time – should they simply not expire?

Importantly, perhaps we are missing an obvious voucher type, or reward, or game mechanic that could be added on which would make things totally amazing and the best! Don’t be shy – this is your forum, let us know!

So, once again, apologies for the break in transmission, ultra-thanks for your patience, and have a think about what vouchers mean to you!

Following that Vouchers topic are some clarifications:

The voucher system's aim is to have a relatively simple set rules that can be used to describe lots of different events and narratives.

In short, what I kind of want to avoid is complexity, whilst retaining the ability to have lots of variety, a tall order, for sure!

Yes, if you make an explorer discovery your galactic map is always updated, but you could also trade the discovery to another player. Doing so would consume the discovery, update their galactic map and hopefully make you happy with whatever they offered in the trade.

Sharing information with friends: I *think* we will want the ability to share galactic map information outside of discovery vouchers (basically as a feature to enable nice co-op gameplay) but I'm not entirely sure whether this would be something as simple as syncing galactic map data or something more precise.

I reckon we will need the ability for multiple vouchers to be generated by missions/events, though this would be dependent on the details, not an automatic process because commanders were in the same group etc.

Lol, before this gets out of hand, I think we can stop worrying about the term vouchers. Players will not see this term - we'll use cooler names and descriptions.

However, in terms of development, it's a very helpful term as it neatly encapsulates the concept and us unique enough to not get confused with other things.