Navy Viper

[spara]

Does someone know the "official" specs for this ship as it seems to be different in Behemoth oxp and GalNavy oxp/wiki?

In Behemoth it has max flight speed of 380 and injectors, but in GalNavy the max flight speed is 320 and no injectors.

Wiki says the same as GalNavy, but that may just be originating from GalNavy.

I just hate inconsistency .

[Smivs]

Technically there is no 'official' spec as these are OXPs
However the GalNavy viper is the same as the 'core' police viper with a top speed of 320LM and no injectors, so the 'Behemoth' spec looks a bit over the top. I'd stick to standard/GN spec I think.

[Norby]

I think if anything named to Navy then at least a bit better than the stock version.
Navy ships should be better in base stats, not in equipments only - for example I never renamed my Cobra to Navy Cobra when I bought Military Shields.

Moreover I can not imagine a Navy fighter without Injectors due to it is the most important tactical addition in my eyes.
A ship without Injectors has a little chance only to take down an enemy with Injectors, usually can force to retreat only which is enough to a police Viper to send pirates away from traders but a Navy Viper must be able to eliminate the target imho.

[Commander McLane]

I would take into consideration that Behemoth OXP is by Aegidian, and thus would see it as semi-official (provided that the stats are from his original release).

After all, I would give him more than other people the benefit of doubt that he (a) knew Oolite, (b) was concerned with a good balance, and (c) knew what he was doing.

[Smivs]

...Behemoth OXP is by Aegidian...I would give him more than other people the benefit of doubt that he (a) knew Oolite, (b) was concerned with a good balance, and (c) knew what he was doing.

A very good point.
I am often mildly surprised the police Vipers don't have injectors - some of those souped-up getaway ships are pretty fast after all

[Cody]

I am often mildly surprised the police Vipers don't have injectors...

Viper Interceptors do have injectors though (as would Navy Vipers, I'd think).

[Smivs]

Yes, the Interceptor is billed as the replacement for the 'aging' Viper, so injectors are presumably one of the upgrades deemed necessary. This does suggest however that the Viper is not injector-friendly for some reason. Maybe it is physically too small - the Interceptor is a bigger ship.

[Cody]

Maybe it is physically too small - the Interceptor is a bigger ship.

<chortles> Except in Griff's shipset - the only difference there is an extra engine. <nudges Griff - again>

[cim]

Fuel Injectors are TL:11. There are still plenty of places where you're looking at weeks of round trip to get them fitted or repaired. And since it doesn't have a witchdrive, actually getting it there isn't going to be entirely straightforward either, plus as well as fitting the injectors you'll have to redesign the interior to put the fuel tanks somewhere. On a naval carrier with its own high-tech shipyard, and especially when fighting Thargoids, those are probably not too difficult to manage; for the local police it's probably too much.
(The only core ship without a witchdrive that gets injectors is the Krait, which is huge compared with the other light fighters, and such an old design that advances in miniaturisation probably made finding space for fuel relatively easy)

The Viper is actually a pretty decent light fighter in most respects, and even has a missile pylon which most ships of that class don't. The big disadvantage it has is the capacitors: only 2 energy banks is definitely on the low side (especially without shields!)

[Cody]

The Viper is actually a pretty decent light fighter in most respects, and even has a missile pylon which most ships of that class don't. The big disadvantage it has is the capacitors: only 2 energy banks is definitely on the low side (especially without shields!)

<nods> Even with NPC Shields installed, they can't take too much punishment - it's tricky 'discouraging' them without actually fraggin' them.

[Eric Walch]

I am often mildly surprised the police Vipers don't have injectors :

The popularor makes a difference between role "police" and "interceptor". The later is only added in higher tech systems. That might be the reason of giving plain police no injectors: now there is a clear behaviour difference of police in low and high tech systems.

Navy ships should have specs that are comparable to the police in high tech systems (= interceptor specs)

[spara]

Thanks for comments. I personally think that there is an error in stats in Behemoth or Galnavy or both. Anyway, I think I'm going to go for a compromise here. Here's what I have in mind:

* Lower the top speed from 380 to 320 making Behemoth Vipers weaker.
* Grant injectors making GalNavy Vipers tougher.

I'll put these modifications into GalNavy Facelift oxp.

EDIT:

* Lower fuel from 240 to 80. That 240 look like an error to me. 80 would be the same as Navy Asp has.

[Eric Walch]

* Lower fuel from 240 to 80. That 240 look like an error to me. 80 would be the same as Navy Asp has.

I think that high value was intentional at the time. Just to make sure that the viper could use injectors for a long time. But, ships are much more economic with fuel in current Oolite versions. Unlike the player, npc ships used to consume fuel when slowing down from max injector speed.

That means lowering the starting fuel brings back the old time a viper could use the injector.

[Smivs]

Here's what I have in mind:
* Lower the top speed from 380 to 320 making Behemoth Vipers weaker.
* Grant injectors making GalNavy Vipers tougher.
* Lower fuel from 240 to 80.

<Nods>

[cim]

* Lower fuel from 240 to 80. That 240 look like an error to me. 80 would be the same as Navy Asp has.

I think that high value was intentional at the time. Just to make sure that the viper could use injectors for a long time. But, ships are much more economic with fuel in current Oolite versions. Unlike the player, npc ships used to consume fuel when slowing down from max injector speed.

Of course, NPC ships also burn fuel when using injectors at four times the rate of the player ship even now.

The code comments suggest that being able to set fuel > 70 in shipdata.plist is a bug. Perhaps if they burned fuel at the same rate as the player they wouldn't need to be able to. On the other hand, if they had that much injector time, it would make it a lot easier for them to do repeated hit-and-run attacks, perhaps too easy.