Proposed wiki page - OXPs for new players.

[Disembodied]

they do all have an influence on the sort of universe the player will find.

I challenge you to find any that don't.. HUDs excepted.

That's kind of my point ... a huge part of Oolite is "the game in the head": I think it's best to allow new players - especially players wholly new to Elite/Oolite - to develop their own versions of this, before too many of our versions get chucked at them.

[spara]

So, onto specifics. Liners was always a shall we/shan't we inclusion. Many people find it adds a sense of scale and grandeur to the game, and a chance to rarely come across a large and very impressive ship of the type they wouldn't normally see.

For me this works exactly the opposite. When I fly close to a liner, I see how big it is (not that big actually) and then I see it in comparison with the distance between the planet and sun. And suddenly the system feels really small to me . Same thing with DH planets and moons actually. They feel to be too close and the grandness of the game vanishes for me.

What we really need is a newbie point of view.

[Smivs]

Yes, the whole point of OXPs is to change the Ooniverse one way or another. This list is to help newbies change it in ways that do not disrupt gameplay or game mechanics. What is left out is more important than what goes in to the list, and of course all OXPs are entirely optional.
One consideration I have kept in mind is the general status of a new player. They are in G1 (so OXPs affecting other galaxies are irrelevent to this), they will be flying a Cobra III, and it won't be very well equipped. So I have included appropriate OXPs. Explorers' Club and Giant Space Pizza for example both have a 'collecting' element to them, so they are included to avoid a player finding them later some way down the line and saying "I wish I'd found this sooner - I've got to go back now and do <something> all over again!".
As for those derived from fiction, well so what? I've never read The Dark Wheel, but that doesn't mean that I don't want TOGY. I looked at it in the Wiki, decided it was excellent eye-candy so I installed it. I don't see any reason to deny people this type of choice (by omission) when both including it in the 'suitable for new players' list is as harmless as adding the OXP to your game.
And yes, much of the game is 'in the head'. It certainly was in original Elite! I don't think the types of OXP we are discussing here have any bearing on that. I don't think (for instance) that new players should have to use the dull and boring core ship textures just to learn the game. They can check out the alternatives listed and decide what 'look' they want without any impact being made on the way they play or learn the game.
As to why some OXPs are not included and some are, this is simple. If an OXP is basically neutral and has no significant affect on gameplay or balance, it is valid for inclusion. If it affects gameplay or balance it is not. If it relates to a galaxy other than G1 it is not relevent and will not be included. Rings and Sunspots are fine, so I will add them to the list.
There does seem to be a split of opinion between those favouring a short list, and those who feel a more comprehensive list is better. Perhaps a better solution than tinkering with the list is for me to expand the introductory text to emphasise more that OXPs are optional, and that the list is simply a selected range of safe OXPs suitable for novices and it is not a recommendation to use as many as possible, but to give the player the oportunity to thoughtfully select those that the new player genuinely feels would fill in any gaps they see in their Ooniverse.

[Cpt]

Perhaps you'd consider the following OXPs: UPS, Snoopers, Asteroid Storm, Longway and Welcome Mat for inclusion in the wiki.

[spara]

Explorers' Club and Giant Space Pizza for example both have a 'collecting' element to them, so they are included to avoid a player finding them later some way down the line and saying "I wish I'd found this sooner - I've got to go back now and do <something> all over again!".

Granted. What I'm thinking is player founding a pizza in space and missing the point. "Those guys really want to have giant pizzas in space? Now that's creepy."

As for those derived from fiction, well so what? I've never read The Dark Wheel, but that doesn't mean that I don't want TOGY.

Here it is important that the player understands it's from book and a sort of classic. If it's the only thing that's different (or special) and you don't know why, just installed it as it's recommended/suggested/whatever, then it would feel weird (and even a bit morbid). It is a graveyard after all.

Maybe it's the words recommended/suggested etc that make me feel uncomfortable. I'm not en English speaker anyway. Or maybe it's the thing that this feels like some ones personal selection (although quite limited, I admit).

If the list is going to be just "neutral" oxps, then maybe an extra column in the oxp list would suffice so that the list could be sorted to neutral/npc/human/mechanic (from the other thread ). Then a simple advice would suffice: "Sort the list by effect on game and install only neutral oxps."

[Smivs]

Maybe it's the words recommended/suggested etc that make me feel uncomfortable.

That's why they are now described as suitable for new players

[Disembodied]

What I'm thinking is player founding a pizza in space and missing the point. "Those guys really want to have giant pizzas in space? Now that's creepy."

This is what I mean about OXPs which change the mood of the game. It's not just the game balance which we should think about. A lot of the mood of the game is quite dark: life is cheap, and much of it is pretty savage, not to say brief. There are jokes in Elite/Oolite (the planet descriptions, most obviously) but you don't actually see the killer goats, etc. in space. A running joke about giant space pizzas which physically exist in the game has a very large effect on the mood of the game. This isn't a bad thing - it's just a big thing. I think it would be best to restrict any list of starter OXPs to those which only make small changes to mood or balance.

[Smivs]

OK, so the Liners and the Pizzas in particular seem to be a bit controversial, and even TOGY is not 100% supported. My reasons for including them thus far are quite straight forward.
The Liners and TOGY are (in my opinion) great eye-candy and I just feel that a new player should be made aware that they are 'safe' to install if they want lots of eye-candy.
The Pizzas could broadly also fall under this arguement, but more pertinently there is a mini-mission of sorts in the OXP whereby a player can 'collect' them - they get a (pointless) reward for visiting all of them - and so a player wanting to do this will want to start while they are still G1 where there are two pizzas. Finding this OXP later will just lead to frustration, particularly if they have already left G1 by then.
Is there a case for a Main list for the obvious candidates, and a Supplementary list for Liners, TOGY, Pizzas etc? In other words "These OXPs are safe for new users but may not be to all tastes", something like that?

[Cody]

To be honest, Space Pizzas belong in a 'joke' OXP section, along with the Halloween Witch (who is due for her annual appearance soon).

[Smivs]

To be honest, Space Pizzas belong in a 'joke' OXP section, along with the Halloween Witch (who is due for her annual appearance soon).

And Santa of course, although he is not due for a while yet
On a serious note these OXPs are obviously very light-hearted. But as Disembodied says the Ooniverse is often a very bleak place, and anything that lightens the mood is welcome in my opinion.
Back to the topic, do we leave these 'controversial' OXPs in the list or not? All I will say is that the list is intended to guide new players as to OXPs they could choose because they are 'safe' in terms of gameplay/balance. It is not a popularity contest, or a list of must-haves, or even a list of suggestions. It is a list of OXPs that would be suitable for newcomers because they do not significantly alter the game. That's all.

[JazHaz]

To be honest, Space Pizzas belong in a 'joke' OXP section, along with the Halloween Witch (who is due for her annual appearance soon).

+1. Take them out.

[Yah-Ta-Hey]

cody wrote: To be honest, Space Pizzas belong in a 'joke' OXP section, along with the Halloween Witch (who is due for her annual appearance soon). I agree but also include:
space jellies...
santa claus
futurama bender oxp

of the three. space jellies can be a bit explosive to a new player.

[Smivs]

Back to the topic, do we leave these 'controversial' OXPs in the list or not? All I will say is that the list is intended to guide new players as to OXPs they could choose because they are 'safe' in terms of gameplay/balance. It is not a popularity contest, or a list of must-haves, or even a list of suggestions. It is a list of OXPs that would be suitable for newcomers because they do not significantly alter the game. That's all.

Worth repeating, I think.
I started this project for two reasons. Specifically because there was recent criticism of one member for plugging one of their OXPs to a new member. The OXP concerned is clearly a game changer, and therefore not really suitable for a new player. Also there have been several similar instances recently when a new member has asked if there is a list of 'recommended' OXPs.
Well, of course there wasn't such a list, and all the usual suggestions were trotted out, regardless of whether they were really suitable or not.
So I decided to do something about it. Having thought about the subject, I concluded that what was needed was a definitive list of OXPs that were suitable for new members. Suitable because they did not significantly alter gameplay, balance or game mechanics.
What I was keen to avoid (apart from including un-suitable OXPs) was any sort of popularity contest. I was hoping the community would join me in identifying all the OXPs a newcomer could 'safely' use, and those they should not consider in the early days. The 'safe' ones would then feature in the list.
And more importantly the 'un-safe' ones wouldn't. As I said before, it is the ones we leave out that are the important ones. They should be declined because they affect the game in fundamental ways. Not because they make the Ooniverse seem smaller, not because they have an issue with the GUI screens, not because they make it easier to spot pirate packs if you know what you're looking for and so on.... These are all reasons for doubt concerning some of the OXPs on the list, and may be valid points in their own right, but these things should not exclude them from a list of 'safe for newbies' OXPs.
Frankly, if I removed all the listed OXPs that have had some doubt cast on them there would probably only be two or three left listed!
If my approach of wanting to list 'safe' OXPs is wrong, please tell me, but if the concept is valid, let's make the list valid by listing as many 'safe' OXPs as we can.

[Cody]

Due to the subjective nature of it, I can't help but think that trying to create a 'safe' OXP list is ultimately futile.
You'd probably have more success trying to create a 'toxic' list - but as I say...

[Smivs]

...I can't help but think that trying to create a 'safe' OXP list is ultimately futile.

I fear you might be right, but that's no reason not to try.