Proposed wiki page - OXPs for new players.

[Smivs]

Following discussion here on the 'Cheat OXP' thread, I have added a Wiki page containing a list of OXPs suitable for new players.
For those who haven't been following the discussion it was thought that it is best to only recommend OXPs to newbies that are neutral and do not adversely affect gameplay or game mechanics. This gives newcomers a chance to learn the basics of the game properly before they start tinkering with their Ooniverse too much.
Some OXPs that were initially suggested have been ruled out for various reasons, and there are almost certainly OXPs not currently listed that would be fine for newcomers. If you think of any, please post your suggestions here and they can be considered for inclusion.
The new list is linked to from the Main OXP page and the OXP list page.
This is a work-in-progress, so all input would be welcomed.
Due to a failure to reach a consensus on the nature and purpose of this Wiki page, this project has now been suspended.
Smivs

[Cody]

<chortles> Delightful Docking slows station rotation, thereby making the game easier for a new player, yes?
As does Griff's station bundle - though it does rotate rock hermits, thereby making that a tad harder.

[Svengali]

What about Thargoids  Lave Academy?

[Smivs]

<chortles> Delightful Docking slows station rotation, thereby making the game easier for a new player, yes?
As does Griff's station bundle - though it does rotate rock hermits, thereby making that a tad harder.

Indeed, although the rotation is for visual effect, with the unfortunate side effect of....
The slower rotation was mentioned earlier in the discussion but nobody really objected. Getting the balance right between being over-strict and devaluing the idea of the list by being too broad-minded is the trick here. Opinions please.

What about Thargoids  Lave Academy?

Excellent idea - done. I also added Explorers' Club which I forgot earlier.

[JazHaz]

These lists are always going to contain items that people don't agree with. That's why myself and others have lists already. Perhaps these could also be listed somewhere, perhaps in a Second Opinions section?

[Smivs]

The 'personal' lists are still linked on the OXP page as before - I see no reason to move them or put them in a special catagory.
The purpose of the new list is to point new players at a range of OXPs which will improve the game for them but without distorting the gameplay or game mechanics in any significant way. Tiny changes from 'core' I think are acceptable - the slightly slower rotation of stations from Delightful Docking and Griffs stations, the way Escort Formations can make it easier to distinguish between a civilian convoy and a pirate group. These will not mask core-game features, or give new players any options for trade etc which do not feature in the core game.
I was also keen to exclude OXPs which might add unreasonable levels of risk to the new player. And of course no 'cheat' OXPs are listed. By having this debate now, we can arrive at a consensus, and give newbies consistent, considered advice.
This board is littered with threads where a newcomer has asked for OXP advice. Some of the OXPs suggested during these discussions are really not appropriate for newbies, and sometimes they have so many suggestions (and conflicting advice) thrown at them they probably end up confused and overwhelmed. This list should avoid all these issues. Instead of everybody chipping in with all sorts of advice, both good and bad, we can now refer the new player to a single list of vetted and approved OXPs suitable for them, the OXP list for New Players.

[spara]

Great thing Smivs, that you have done something concrete. Here's a few personal views about it. I think that this list should be about what majority think as essential oxps. I like to think these as oxps, that could be thought to be shipped with the game. I'm also trying to keep in mind that these are the first oxps a new user installs, so the result should be without glitches.

Here we go :

1. Planets and moons.
These are a bit problematic as they don't mix without glitches and they do different things and at the same time overlap each other. Povray planets texture the main planet, Famous planets works with that giving nice descriptions. But, if you put System *emux on top, it will override the main planet texture. For a new player that is something that should not happen. These oxps really should be made to work nicely with each other or there should be just one working combination that is recommended. Rather than saying to install only one at a time.

2. Replacement ships.
Maybe just Smivs' and Griff's as they are hi-res and they are actively maintained. Just a mention that there are others might suffice here.

3. Extra ships.
Just a note that they exist would suffice. I'm not sure about lifting Liners here. I remember it being a disappointment when the first Liner I saw was a tigershark. Not really comparable to Griff's ships. Another thing is that big ships reveal the fact that the system is small. At least for me, that eats the ambiance.

4. General ambiance.
Not sure about Delightful Docking. Nice music, but is it really something that should be included in essential first oxps? And Explorer's Club. Not sure about it either. First of all, it defines it's own keystroke making it look like it's a bit of hack rather than part of the game. At least it should be updated to go to f4 screen. And does it really give that much to a starting player? Third one I would hesitate with is the Lave Academy. It's sort of a tutorial to the game, but is it really the way to go? I don't think it's for every starting pilot.

5. Other Eye-Candy.
Don't think this is really required. At this point, the player should be browsing the oxp list already. I get the joke about the Pizzas, but recommending it as a starter oxp. . Really? I would also drop Star-Jellys out too. I did not find the that appealing when I installed them long ago. TOGY is a bit of a tough call. If (big if) you have read Dark Wheel or are otherwise familiar with the backround, then you might expect it to be there. Otherwise it's a bit weird considering there is nothing else special around. I would drop that too.

That's about it. Please read this as constructive feedback rather than whining.

[Diziet Sma]

5. Other Eye-Candy.
Don't think this is really required. At this point, the player should be browsing the oxp list already.

I think an eye-candy category is worthwhile.. some eye-candy also affects game balance, and some does not.. pointing out the ones that don't strikes me as a good thing.

On a minor note, this discussion has had me wondering where my own modest contribution fits, balance-wise.. Now, I realise that it merely goes some way to restoring balance between the player and NPCs. My reasoning is, in the core game, NPCs now ALWAYS automatically react to the presence of a q-bomb.. a luxury the player does not enjoy.. thus, adding an audible alert to the easily missed visual warning on the scanner is (partially) helping to equalise things vis-à-vis the player and NPCs..

[Smivs]

Thanks for the input, that's exactly what I was hoping for, as I think a consensus is important here. My goal is to produce a resource that all members are happy to refer new players to.
My hope is to give newbies a range of options rather than a short list of OXPs. We know from past experience that people often just grab every OXP they see to start with. This suggests that many new members are keen to try a variety of OXPs and an overly limited list might be ignored as being 'useless'. Rather than "We think this is the best OXP for you", I'm hoping to give a fairly wide choice to increase the appeal by increasing the options.
This is why I was keen to give several planet and shipset options, with some basic advice as to what will and won't work together. Also it means that more authors can be represented in the list, which I feel is only fair. I know I would feel a bit negative if a perfectly good, entirely appropriate OXP of mine was omitted from a list like this just because it was not perceived as 'the best' or wasn't as popular as others.
Also the list is not intended to be of 'essential' OXPs - no OXP is essential. It is designed to point newcomers at OXPs that they can use without messing with the basic game.
So, onto specifics. Liners was always a shall we/shan't we inclusion. Many people find it adds a sense of scale and grandeur to the game, and a chance to rarely come across a large and very impressive ship of the type they wouldn't normally see. Inpact on gameplay is negligible, so I see no reason not to include it. If the consensus is that it should not be listed, then it can be removed - at this stage all the entries are provisional.
Explorers' Club and Lave academy are included because they are both tailored towards new players. Lave academy because of its guidance and help, and Explorers' Club because the sooner it is installed the better if the user wants to 'collect' all the systems.
Delightful Docking is currently included as it is a very popular OXP which adds a lot of ambience to the game, and except for the reduced station rotation is neutral in terms of game mechanics. As before, if the majority think it should be removed, then it will go.
The 'Other Eye-candy' section is there to give more options. As before none of these are essential, but that's not what this list is all about. None of them affect gameplay or game balance, but all add something that many players might like.
The Q-mine detector has not been included at this stage. As Dizzie points out it does not affect game balance - in fact it levels things up for the player, but the fact is a new player is very unlikely to come across a Q-mine. These are only used by OXP NPCs, and the sort of OXP that has NPCs armed with Q-mines is never going to be appropriate to this list, so if the newbie draws their OXP set from this list, they simply won't need a Q-mine detector.

[Disembodied]

I think it might be useful to change the heading "Recommended OXPs for new players" to something like "Suggested OXPs for new players" - at the moment it sounds as if new players really need to have these. I'd also order the list differently: start with "General Ambience" OXPs, for example. These probably have the most immediately obvious effects, which don't alter gameplay. This might also be an appropriate place to put the replacement shipsets, too, with the caveat that the player should pick one and one only.

In fact, I'd be tempted to restrict any semi-official suggestions page to these "General Ambience" OXPs only. They would show new players some of the possibilities offered by OXPs, without offering anything that alters core gameplay. The problem with offering a large range of options at once is that it's liable to confuse and overwhelm people if they don't know what the core game is supposed to be like. The number of game downloads versus the number of OXP downloads suggests that most players don't use OXPs at all: a gentle introduction to the whole domain might be better than too much choice in one go (and might introduce the idea of "less is more" to the chuck-'em-all-in types, too).

[Diziet Sma]

The Q-mine detector has not been included at this stage. As Dizzie points out it does not affect game balance - in fact it levels things up for the player, but the fact is a new player is very unlikely to come across a Q-mine. These are only used by OXP NPCs, and the sort of OXP that has NPCs armed with Q-mines is never going to be appropriate to this list, so if the newbie draws their OXP set from this list, they simply won't need a Q-mine detector.

Totally agree.. I don't think it's an appropriate entry for this list at all.. I only mentioned it as an aside, since the above discussion finally clarified for me how I should rate it on its' wiki page, once we decide on the icons to use.

[Smivs]

I think it might be useful to change the heading "Recommended OXPs for new players" to something like "Suggested OXPs for new players"...

Agreed. We should not be 'recommending' anything in the sense of promoting them. These are optional add-ons after all.
I have edited the various entries on the wiki to reflect this, using the word 'suitable' where appropriate.
As for the length and extent of the list, I am in two minds. Initially I was thinking a very short list would be best, for the reasons Disembodied mentions, but recently I have been more inclined to a longer list. There are several reasons for this, most of which I touched on above. A very limited list might give the impression that 'nothing is really available', and might therefore be ignored as being too limited. A more comprehensive list does give more options (and, yes, more room for confusion I'll admit!) but I do feel that this is important. Those who embrace OXPs will appreciate the choice offered to them I'm sure.
As for the order of the groups, well, that's just the order I did them in. Is the group order important? I don't know. That just seemed logical to me - start with the planets and ships, then add other touches.

[Disembodied]

Even though most of the OXPs listed there don't change the game-balance (or if they do, not by much), they do all have an influence on the sort of universe the player will find. I think a recommendation to start with a very few OXPs is better than giving people the impression that OXPs can (or should) be added in quantity without impacting on, at the very least, the tone and feel of the game universe. Even something like Random Ship Names has an effect (or at least I hope it does! ) on the player's perception of the kind of place the Co-operative is, and what kinds of people you might meet there.

There's also another reason for limiting the list to "General Ambience" only: it will greatly cut down on the "Why isn't X/Y/Z on the list?" questions.

[Mauiby de Fug]

Some of my thoughts on this...

Instead of "recommended" or "suggested", perhaps "safe" might be a clearer choice of words? I don't think there is anything wrong with giving them a choice between similar OXPs at all; in fact if they are going to start browsing the OXP lists they are going to need to learn how to make choices. To me the point of this is to get them started on that learning curve with safe options that aren't going to skew their game massively, one way or another, whilst still showing them what is possible. As such, it seems right that they be given several planet and shipset options. They can start to design their Ooniverse based on their own preferences. For example, Griff's shipset doesn't change the underlying shape of the ships too much, it "merely" expands upon it and adds metallic textures. Neolites, on the other hand, changes the shape massively, whilst adding colourful textures. And Smivs' doesn't change the shape at all, but just re-textures them. Despite the impressive capability of changing the texture on-the-fly to reflect damage that Smivs' shipset has, I personally don't install them, as I find the colours come across as too bright, flat and cartoony. However, for a great many people, they like the way that it is a subtle enhancement of the original textures, without losing the basis of where they came from. So I feel they need to be encouraged to make choices early, and this reduced list will give them a "safer" way to do so.

In terms of what a Jameson should add, the things that I feel make the biggest impact on the game are the re-textures of the planets and ships. Then those classed as general ambience. So in fact the order seems to me to be about right. I'd be reluctant to link to any other extra ships. They are far to subjective as to what may or may not affect the game. A note saying that they exist would suffice. Lave Academy I can see adding, but maybe a tag saying that it can act somewhat as a tutorial? Explorers' Club seems fine to me, in that it really should be there in the early game, and personally, I feel that we want to remind them that there is a big Ooniverse out there, that they should explore if they want to see all the things they have been adding in with OXPs. Although I agree with spara that it should be updated to take advantage of the new F4 interface. Delightful Docking doesn't really float my boat, but it doesn't make too much of a difference.

I wouldn't list the Giant Space Pizza though. That feels like too much of a joke.

In terms of some of the ones derived from the fiction, perhaps a note simply saying so, thereby letting them know the origin, and they can decide if they would like it or not? Possibly also a link to the Fiction page could then follow, allowing them to, if they choose, explore the different feels that others have written? That could inspire the game-in-their-head, and allow them to more carefully think about their future OXP choices...

Finally, other OXPs that may be safe to add might be cim's System Features: Rings and Sunspots.

[Diziet Sma]

they do all have an influence on the sort of universe the player will find.

I challenge you to find any that don't.. HUDs excepted.

Edit:

Finally, other OXPs that may be safe to add might be cim's System Features: Rings and Sunspots.

Ok.. so Mauiby found two..