Split: Cheat OXPs

[Smivs]

@ Commander McLane, I take your point.
It might simply be that we 'plug' the OXP list here so much folks don't realise there are other OXP pages on the wiki, although you'd expect the OXP page linked from the site index page would be quite well known. Obviously not!
Whatever, the 'recommended for newbies' list has to go somewhere, and it might be that the 'logical' place is the OXP list page. However that page is already so long that we've discussed splitting it before now, so I'm not sure that's the answer either.
Suggestion:- Give the 'newbies' list a page of its own, and link to it from the main OXP page and the OXP list page. Thoughts?

[Eric Walch]

Suggestion:- Give the 'newbies' list a page of its own, and link to it from the main OXP page and the OXP list page. Thoughts?

Sounds as a good idea that starters are first pointed to a list with the more popular oxps instead of a list of all oxps.

Which oxps should be on that list will be difficult.

You can add on the list of visual enhancement:
- Cargo Wreck Teaser
- Asteroid storm.

The late being two oxps in one: a mission oxp and an enhancement oxp. To what category should this go?

[Capt. Reynolds]

The late being two oxps in one: a mission oxp and an enhancement oxp. To what category should this go?

Why not both? Have an entry that points to it in both sub-lists. The same thing would apply to things like Random Hits, which could be classed as a Mission-based OXP and a Dockables one.

On another note, I'm not entirely comfortable with the word "cheat" being bandied about so much. If Oolite was multiplayer it'd be valid, but how person X chooses to set up their own personal version with OXPs has absolutely zero effect on me and is none of my business, and vice versa. If you label an OXP as a cheat, by implication you're calling its users cheaters. Not a label I'd be happy with someone using on me, based purely on their opinion of how "cheaty" an OXP on my system was, whether its developer intended it that way or not.

[Cody]

'Cheat' is perhaps too harsh a word in the context of a game that can be modded to one's heart's content - but it surely applies to a few OXPs. What word(s) to use instead though - OXPs that 'go against the spirit of the game' or are 'balance-breakers'? It's probably too subjective a thing to create a suitable list anyway.

[Norby]

What word(s) to use instead

Helpers?

[Commander McLane]

On another note, I'm not entirely comfortable with the word "cheat" being bandied about so much. If Oolite was multiplayer it'd be valid, but how person X chooses to set up their own personal version with OXPs has absolutely zero effect on me and is none of my business, and vice versa. If you label an OXP as a cheat, by implication you're calling its users cheaters.

'Cheat' is perhaps too harsh a word in the context of a game that can be modded to one's heart's content

Well, if there's a consensus in the direction that there is no such thing as a cheat in a single player game, then … I'll be happy to remove any mention of the word "cheat" from [wiki]Killit OXP[/wiki] and to spam an improved version, where the Killit Missile automagically replaces itself right after firing (thus giving you unlimited, infallible ammo), to all new players as an absolutely must-have OXP, starting tomorrow.

[Cody]

I'll be happy to remove any mention of the word "cheat" from [wiki]Killit OXP[/wiki] and to spam an improved version, where the Killit Missile automagically replaces itself right after firing (thus giving you unlimited, infallible ammo), to all new players as an absolutely must-have OXP, starting tomorrow.

<sniggers>

[Capt. Reynolds]

Well, if there's a consensus in the direction that there is no such thing as a cheat in a single player game, then … I'll be happy to remove any mention of the word "cheat" from [wiki]Killit OXP[/wiki] and to spam an improved version, where the Killit Missile automagically replaces itself right after firing (thus giving you unlimited, infallible ammo), to all new players as an absolutely must-have OXP, starting tomorrow.

You'd have to drop the price down to under 100Cr so new players could afford it straight off the bat.

In seriousness, though, you're actually talking about two separate issues there - balance-altering OXPs and over-promotion of one's own creations. We're adults; we can make our minds up for ourselves about whether to try/keep/bin an OXP or not. As for the self-promotion? Well, it's understandable in a way - I know if I made an OXP I'd want people to know about it - but you don't want a poster's every post to be along the lines of "that's really interesting, but let me tell you about my new Homing Turtle OXP that's brilliant!" But that's more a forums etiquette issue than anything else.

Incidentally, the OXP that made the most difference to my game balance was an Ambience one - actually, two. I was running one sky enhancement and decided to try a different one on a whim. All of a sudden I went from being able to pick out ships visually from way beyond scanner range to not being able to see someone up-sun of me from 10km!

[Diziet Sma]

The NPCs don't (yet) know how to deal with plasma turrets (stand back out of range...) so fitting even one to a ship makes it incredibly dangerous.

Eh? On the odd occasion I take my Falcon out for a spin, the NPCs make quite a point of trying to stay out of range.

Depending on other factors (their armament, their accuracy level), it may be that they naturally hang back out of range, but there's nothing specific that would make them do that for the Falcon over a Cobra.

The behaviour I've seen is that often, as soon as they start taking hits from a plasma cannon, they move outside plasma range and start taking pot-shots in the typical 'shoot a few times, move sideways, shoot a few more times, move and repeat' way. Move towards them and turn the plasma against them again, and they'll fall back to suit.

[Smivs]

Getting back on-topic, upon reflection I'm thinking Aliens might not be appropriate for the 'newbie' list as one of them is a bit aggressive and might come as a nasty shock to someone still flying a fairly basic Cobra.
Also, does Asteroid Storm still permanently remove a certain main station? If so that might not be appropriate either as there is a chance that a new player could get stuck there if they returned and couldn't re-fuel anywhere.
For now, I think we can add Snoopers and System features, and Cargo Wreck Teasers is probably OK as well.

[Commander McLane]

Also, does Asteroid Storm still permanently remove a certain main station?

Only if the player does the mission part of it, which they don't need to and may never do (for instance because of not being in a certain system).

[cim]

The behaviour I've seen is that often, as soon as they start taking hits from a plasma cannon, they move outside plasma range and start taking pot-shots in the typical 'shoot a few times, move sideways, shoot a few more times, move and repeat' way. Move towards them and turn the plasma against them again, and they'll fall back to suit.

Interesting. That's better than I expected, though at least the smarter of them shouldn't be getting within plasma range in the first place if at all possible.

[Diziet Sma]

the smarter of them shouldn't be getting within plasma range in the first place if at all possible.

I've seen that happen, too.. some of those, I can 'provoke' into coming within range (for a little while, at least, they catch on fast).. with others, I have to ummm.. force the issue..

[Svengali]

It could be tricky to do consistently, of course: some OXPs might make things easier for Clean players but harder for Offenders or Fugitives, for example.

You could go with a range both positive and negative in the indicator, or for something like that (Galactic Navy would be a good example, I suppose) you could just have a different icon which meant "rewrites game balance" to make it clear that it gives the game as a whole a different feel, not just a change in difficulty.

Sounds good for me. I've started to work on templates to show icons -> [wiki]OXPIconSummary[/wiki] on OXP pages. A single icon for "rewrites game balance" and maybe two other for "favours Player" and "favours NPCs" then?

[DaddyHoggy]

It could be tricky to do consistently, of course: some OXPs might make things easier for Clean players but harder for Offenders or Fugitives, for example.

You could go with a range both positive and negative in the indicator, or for something like that (Galactic Navy would be a good example, I suppose) you could just have a different icon which meant "rewrites game balance" to make it clear that it gives the game as a whole a different feel, not just a change in difficulty.

Sounds good for me. I've started to work on templates to show icons -> [wiki]OXPIconSummary[/wiki] on OXP pages. A single icon for "rewrites game balance" and maybe two other for "favours Player" and "favours NPCs" then?

Are these any good to you? Fairly simple I would hope...




(Or based on suggestion on next page):



I also have these at very large scales (c. 1.7K x 1.7K)