[RELEASE] SellAll OXP v1.29

[JazHaz]

This actually got me to thinking of how to make the markets more realistic. In the real world, market prices change based on supply and demand. This would be a total game-changer, but what about making prices shift based on how much you buy and sell? So let's say computers are currently being bought for 100 creds/ton on the market. As you start unloading ton after ton of computers, the price would gradually decrease.

But in real life, 1 trader wouldn't really make much dent in the market.

[laxori666]

This actually got me to thinking of how to make the markets more realistic. In the real world, market prices change based on supply and demand. This would be a total game-changer, but what about making prices shift based on how much you buy and sell? So let's say computers are currently being bought for 100 creds/ton on the market. As you start unloading ton after ton of computers, the price would gradually decrease.

But in real life, 1 trader wouldn't really make much dent in the market.

Well, it depends on the size of the market. Seeing that at some stations I could buy the entire load of a particular good that the market has to offer, it seems that the market is actually pretty small. That being said the planets do have billions of people on them ...

EDIT: To put it differently, if the handwavium for the 127t limit is that the market can't take such a big transaction, then that same handwavium could be used to allow selling more than 127t but with the price changing. that or we need new handwavium =p.

[Commander McLane]

<Chuckles> A 'Cheaters OXPs' section would probably be the biggest section of all!

[wiki] [/wiki]Category:Cheats

Though, in order to keep remain consistent with the other categories, you should have called it "Cheat OXPs". It doesn't hurt to have a minimum of systematic consistency in a place for looking things up.

[Smivs]

...add the Giant Space Pizza to that list - ain't no way that much pepperoni could exist in one place without going critical!

Oi! That's not a cheat, it's a Wonder of Nature.

[Yah-Ta-Hey]

I applaud everyone's input and the desire to get more "realistic" but then, let's throw in non-newtonian physics for the ship handling, true effect of force in open space (make the space ship handle like a space ship and not an airplane) and totally throw out the KISS principle and make this no longer a game but a deep immersion space simulator. Leave out the CHEAT oxp category.. it is all a matter of moral balance and how you want your ooniverse to be. Selah

[Smivs]

Before we all get too sidetracked let's remember that this OXP was released in response to a suggestion/request from a member with a particular need due to a specific Oolite lifestyle.
The fact is it probably does exactly what was asked for. It just plays havoc with the game when played more conventionally.
Perhaps it just needs a prominant health warning in the documentation?

[Cody]

That smells a bit like black market and that as an idea deserves some venturing. So how about capping selling at the market screen to the games own 127 limit and creating a black market interface where there sometimes is someone willing to buy and sometimes not.

This is a good idea, I reckon.

[Norby]

1. any oxp that depends on playerBoughtCargo/playerSoldCargo events will break.
2. To prevent accidental activations, I would use a "are you sure?" mission screen
3. smells a bit like black market ... the price should definitely be much lower

1. Thank you spara, I like very much your well commented codes which helped me to made compatibility with marketObserver and Trading Assistant.

Thargoid's Commodity Markets OXP is unsupported due to more complicated to make the compatibility (than put a note into the readme ) and I can suggest your mO-Commodity_Markets in the marketObserver package to reach the same goal.

I suggest also to "add note about the compatibility issues to the wiki and readme" between Trading Assistant and mO-Commodity_Markets. Needed some time to solve why my "if mo-c exists then mo-c.$oneofthefunctions()" code drop a function do not exists error (because TA removed all functions from mo-c).

2. I do not like the "are you sure?" questions and I think a single F8 press is enough safe after some use. Without different prices there is no risk, and I thinked to an undo function but skipped due to a small risk can fit into the gameplay as in real also easy to make small mistakes which costs a few money.

3. Your idea about the black market with low price is very cool, I made it into the  new v1.2. Pay less than half price, less for more amount, not all time available (good luck to trying figure out without looking into the code ) and has separated confirmation screen within Interfaces.

[Cody]

Your idea about the black market with low price is very cool, I made it into the  new v1.2. Pay less than half price, less for more amount, not all time available...

A thought: if you wanted to add some risk, you could throw in a small random chance that dealing on the black market would earn the player an offender tag.

[Smivs]

...or even lose your money - get conned

[Cody]

...or even lose your money - get conned

Yes, I like it... mierda happens!

[Norby]

Thanks for all other replies also, I put some into the v1.2, please try it.

The F8 key can not sell over 127t anymore. Must do some "try again" quest to get a customer for your additional cargo if currently is not available, and pay much less to avoid using it in normal trade, but leave a little space to sell your salvage when using [wiki]Towbar[/wiki] more times in the same system (next version is almost ready and tuned to it).

About cheating: the previous unlimited version can fit into the new wiki category (thanks Jaz ), but this was not my goal. I hope the new restrictions put it back to the mechanics level, and more can be coming later, like the idea from Cody about the offender tag (thanks!).

[Disembodied]

To put it differently, if the handwavium for the 127t limit is that the market can't take such a big transaction, then that same handwavium could be used to allow selling more than 127t but with the price changing. that or we need new handwavium =p.

People's handwavium varies, but for me, I've always assumed that the 127-unit limit (it applies to kg and g, as well as t) is a restriction placed on individual ships and individual transactions. Big commodity deals are possible through the cargo contracts market, and that's where the bulk deals are done. The player is an independent trader, a small-time player in a market dominated, for the most part, in the safe systems, by large shipping lines.

I'd be wary of allowing the player to make dents in the market, myself ... these things can lead to exploits. Plus, I have to say, making the player's actions so visibly influential runs the risk of reducing the game's sense of scale. The player starts to become a big wheel, a major driver of the game universe; I prefer the feeling of being an insignificant part, lost in the middle of something huge.

That said, of course, the real reason behind the 127 limit is old 8-bit computer chips. While it would seem odd, to me, to have the price of e.g. ores or food change for each TC bought or sold, if a player dumped 500kg of gold onto the market, then that might, indeed, change the local price of gold. Which would be a reason for stations to restrict trade, as much as anything else.

All in all, I think the "black market" angle currently being explored might make for more interesting game options. The important thing is to achieve a balance of risk to reward, of effort put in for money gained - "realism" should be waaay down the list of prioities!

[Commander McLane]

Just a reminder that Vector OXP already contains a black market component, although it's working differently. The idea, however, is definitely not new.

[Svengali]

Just a reminder that Vector OXP already contains a black market component, although it's working differently. The idea, however, is definitely not new.

Yes, it uses two mechanisms which are more or less a black market thing (one in Vector itself, the other uses CCL_SpecialMarkets). The next versions will sandbox things even more, while still keeping the possibility to use it in other OXPs. Commodities stuff is covered in Cims New Cargoes and lots of other OXPs, so I'll get rid of it.