E-reader advice

[Disembodied]

An article on Forbes.com: Amazon Ebooks Are Borrowed, Not Bought.

According to Amazon’s Kindle Store terms of use, “Kindle content is licensed, not sold”. Should you attempt to break the DRM security block or transfer your purchase to another device, Amazon may legally “revoke your access to the Kindle Store and the Kindle Content without refund of any fees”.

The article makes an interesting point (my emphasis):

This rather makes me wonder if Amazon is guilty of misselling or false advertising. By using phrases like “Buy now with 1-Click” and by presenting the Kindle edition of a book alongside hardcovers and paperbacks as if it is a digital equivalent, Amazon leads any normal, rational person to believe that they actually are taking ownership of the digital file. And ownership, for most people, implies that they will have the file in perpetuity, just like they have a paperback in perpetuity (ignoring fire, flood and acts of dog).

Except the Ts&Cs are unambiguous: You do not own the ebooks that you download from Amazon, you are licensing them, and that licence can be summarily rescinded at any time. Surely Amazon, and other etailers, should be using language like “licence now” instead of “buy now”? That would certainly make it clearer to their customers that the playing field is not level and that handing over money for ebooks comes with the risk that one day Amazon might wipe your library.

[NigelJK]

I've always worked on the assumption that what ever terms and conditions have been imposed (for whatever reason) in a one sided agreement can all be challenged in court. If you want an example of how this works in practice and a look around Pepipoo with regards to 'parking tickets'. Also the unfair temrs act also makes interesting reading.

Now all that's required is a case in a court of record where Amazon, Microsoft etc try to defend these terms.

Note that this al revolves around British law but other places will have it as an authoritative argument.

[Disembodied]

You'd also need someone prepared to challenge these giant corporations in court, with sufficient time, patience, financial muscle, etc. to endure years of legal argument. It's true that simply clicking "Agree" on a set of T&Cs does not necessarily bind one to whatever the T&Cs might say - but getting a definitive legal answer as to which ones apply and which ones do not apply could be an immensely long and costly business. And, of course, Microsoft, Amazon etc. might win.

[NigelJK]

Well in the private parking world they have consistently complained to 'the authorities' about some of the antics of the bigger players (who seem to think they are above the law). Recently this culminated in new laws banning clamping on private in England (and even if you are a council you'd better have a pretty good reason to). The campaign has shifted to the big players playing fast and loose with the VAT system and currently 2 of the biggest players are in very hot water indeed. They lost their case against HMRC (AKA inland revenue) and currently the DVLA are also fighting a rear guard action (as they are being investigated by the ICO) as they have been dishing out motorist details to these unscrupulous mongrels.

"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it and I shall move the world"

[xzanfr]

How do these licensing rules for amazon content work with regards to the format?
I'm now using an amazon paperwhite but managed through claibre (mainly as I'm enjoying oolite fiction etc that isn't available through Amazon) - its a great piece of kit that has transformed the way i read.
Recently I accidentally selected a [free] purchase-from-amazon book (AZW3 format), pressed "convert" then fumbled the controls and converted it to a mobi, all by accident, honest yer 'onour

If Amazon withdraw the azw3 version of the book from my kindle whats stopping me from restoring the mobi version to my kindle? Also what is stopping me from converting all of my books to a different format then saving them as backups?

It seems to me the answer is to "backup" everything to a different format, store it elsewhere then you actually own the book - it's no different from printing it and storing it on my bookshelves.

[Wolfwood]

Yes, those accidental conversions have been known to happen...

[Diziet Sma]

Last Saturday I picked up one of these ebook reader/media players at Aldi for just AU$50

It comes with 4GB of RAM built in and can be expanded by up to 32GB using a MicroSD card.

It can handle PDF, EPUB, FB2, TXT, MOBI, HTM, PDB, RTF, LRC formats for books, MP3, WMA, FLAC, AAC, WAV, OGG audio formats, as well as MPG, RMVB, FLC, ASF, WMV, MP4, 3GP, RM, AVI, DATA media formats and BMP, JPG, GIF, PNG images..

It also has an FM radio & earbuds, and for reading, gets about 6 hours use on a full battery, with the screen brightness set to maximum. My bus/train journeys have now improved out of sight..

Best of all.. Amazon can't touch it!

(the only downside.. there are no device drivers for Linux, (Win/Mac only) so I have to load/delete files via my Vista laptop)

[Selezen]

Damn you Aussies. You always get the best stuff.

(Apart from Fosters. That's dingo pee in a bottle. Which is probably why you sell it to the UK.)

[Disembodied]

How do these licensing rules for amazon content work with regards to the format?

According to Amazon’s Kindle Store terms of use,

All content included in or made available through any Amazon Service, such as text, graphics, logos, button icons, images, audio clips, digital downloads, and data compilations is the property of Amazon or its content suppliers and protected by United States and international copyright laws.

If Amazon withdraw the azw3 version of the book from my kindle whats stopping me from restoring the mobi version to my kindle? Also what is stopping me from converting all of my books to a different format then saving them as backups?

Nothing is physically stopping you - although the fact that Amazon might well be able to remotely examine the contents of your Kindle, and can terminate your account, may mean that you might not want to play too fast and loose with their T&Cs. See for example what happened to Linn Nygaard:
http://www.bekkelund.net/2012/10/22/out ... mazon-drm/

Although - following a lot of very bad online publicity for Amazon - she got her account, and access to books she had paid for, restored, Amazon never explained their actions nor apologised. Probably, this was due to some fairly arcane issues of cross-border book licensing: she being in Norway, and buying ebooks licensed in the UK. If Amazon caught someone directly violating their own T&Cs - and especially as Amazon enjoys a larger and larger share of the market, making it less vulnerable to consumer pressure - I wouldn't expect any such happy ending.

It seems to me the answer is to "backup" everything to a different format, store it elsewhere then you actually own the book - it's no different from printing it and storing it on my bookshelves.

You don't own the book. Not according to Amazon. You have licensed a DRM-protected copy in Kindle format from them, and then - by backing it up, changing format, removing DRM, etc. - you have broken their T&Cs, and broken US and international copyright laws. What would actually happen would depend on whether or not Amazon found out, and whether or not they wanted to make a big deal out of it. If it got as far as the courts, a court case might end up breaking Amazon's grip, and enhancing customers' rights - or it might end up in massive fines and/or jail time.

[Diziet Sma]

(Apart from Fosters. That's dingo pee in a bottle. Which is probably why you sell it to the UK.)

Yup.. we have many much better beers here..

(there's far worse Aussie beers than Fosters, though.. <thinks of Southwark Bitter and shudders violently>)

[Wolfwood]

Amazon might well be able to remotely examine the contents of your Kindle

Not really, if you keep the wi-fi off and manage the reader with Calibre, for example.

[Wolfwood]

Last Saturday I picked up one of these ebook reader/media players at Aldi for just AU$50

That's an LCD display, I guess? Sort of disqualifies it as an e-book reader in my books. Same as if you read your books with a tablet...

[Disembodied]

Amazon might well be able to remotely examine the contents of your Kindle

Not really, if you keep the wi-fi off and manage the reader with Calibre, for example.

Yes, this is true. There are ways around Amazon's oversight. If this becomes common, then expect the next generation of Kindles to come with wifi permanently enabled ... (except there probably won't be a next generation of Kindle e-readers: it's just going to be tablets from now on, and no doubt they'll have built-in AutoClype™ technology as standard).

[Wolfwood]

(except there probably won't be a next generation of Kindle e-readers: it's just going to be tablets from now on, and no doubt they'll have built-in AutoClype™ technology as standard).

They did release Kindle Paperwhite after the Fire tablets and they are working on colour display e-ink readers for their next release. It seems clear that they know that avid readers would not consider reading from LCD displays, but they are serving both markets...

[Diziet Sma]

Last Saturday I picked up one of these ebook reader/media players at Aldi for just AU$50

That's an LCD display, I guess? Sort of disqualifies it as an e-book reader in my books. Same as if you read your books with a tablet...

Restricting your definition of e-book reader only to devices using e-ink seems unnecessarily limiting, IMO.

Yes, it's LCD.. but it has no touchscreen, no connectivity, and no way to install any software/apps, either. So it hardly qualifies as a tablet. All it can do is function as a reader/player. Which in my book makes it simply a slightly more versatile than average e-book reader.