Thargoids

[Cody]

I'm tired, so my old frazzled memory may be playing tricks, but I thought drones went inert shortly after their mothership was destroyed?

I came across one warship and two drones having a tussle with four ships, so I got stuck-in and splashed the warship - but the drones continued to scrap, both with me and the other ships. They didn't stop 'til I'd splashed them too (which was when three of the four other ships showed themselves to be bandits and attacked me).

Trunk nightly version 1.77.1.5631

[Tricky]

I'm tired, so my old frazzled memory may be playing tricks, but I thought drones went inert shortly after their mothership was destroyed?

I came across one warship and two drones having a tussle with four ships, so I got stuck-in and splashed the warship - but the drones continued to scrap, both with me and the other ships. They didn't stop 'til I'd splashed them too (which was when three of the four other ships showed themselves to be bandits and attacked me).

Trunk nightly version 1.77.1.5631

It's the old mothership is dead (STATUS_DEAD) but the mothership object is still in system bug. There are times when I have a lock on a thargoid warship that gets splashed, yet still the lock is still highlighted, leaving a big target box around nothing. I'll have to remember to do a dumpState() next time.

[Eric Walch]

It's the old mothership is dead (STATUS_DEAD) but the mothership object is still in system bug. There are times when I have a lock on a thargoid warship that gets splashed, yet still the lock is still highlighted, leaving a big target box around nothing. I'll have to remember to do a dumpState() next time.

You can get the info in the console by targeting the targlet and typing: PS.target.owner.status or PS.target.group.leader.status.

On the mac this is easier because you can invoke the target inspector of the target and in that you can invoke the inspector of groups or owners of that target.

The only thing that now is better in trunk, is that ships already generate a "target_lost" message when they are dead. That avoids the strange behaviour of ships fighting a imaginary target that already was removed from the system but still in memory. Of cause, that does not fix the underlying memory bug. I had even several occasions were I could keep a reference to dead ships after loading a new game.
(That won't work with JS were all variables are cleared on loading a new game, but on the mac, the target inspector still shows those dead ships. )

See also this report from 8 months ago.
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Or, the targlets are very valid alive, because their scanner range is 60000 meter. As long as the mother is less than 60000 meters away it is valid when they stay attacking.

[Smivs]

Or, the targlets are very valid alive, because their scanner range is 60000 meter. As long as the mother is less than 60000 meters away it is valid when they stay attacking.

Is that right? From the Wiki

scanner_range

Sets a custom scanner range. Standard is 25.6 km, thargoids have 50 km. Only applies to NPCs. However, at least since oolite 1.65 all defined scanner ranges are limited to 25.6 km, even for thargoids. This means it only makes sense defining shorter ranges than the maximum range.

Example:
"scanner_range" = "25600";

Underlining added by me for emphasis.

[Eric Walch]

Is that right? From the Wiki

I was quoting from memory. It is 50.000 for tharglets. The wiki was right when written, but I think that is now corrected in trunk. Most search code has a hardcoded maximum of 25600 m. Also the AI command thargonCheckMother. That felt buggy with a scanner range of 50.000. In 1.75 I fixed that a bit by letting the thargonCheckMother not checking if there was a thargoid mother in range, but first do a check if his owner is in scanner range. And there I made sure it is the true range as defined in shipdata.

Only when that original mother dies, it scans for a new mother. And that scan does hit the hardcoded 25600 range. This new way of not always scanning the area for mothers is more time efficient and allows to respect the scanner range more correct.

[Cody]

So... the drones remained active 'cos there was another mothership somewhere? Or was this buggy behaviour?

[Eric Walch]

So... the drones remained active 'cos there was another mothership somewhere? Or was this buggy behaviour?

Not just somewhere. The drone keeps maintaining contact with its last known mother. That contact stays as long as it is in scanner range (= 50.000m = about 2x player scanner range). If that contact is lost, it scans for a new mother. That scan has a hardcoded limit of 25600 meter. That scan also limits to 16 found ships. So, in a crowded space it might miss a present mother and go inactive.

Than it depends on the AI how fast it reacts on a missing mother. e.g. thargoid released secondWave.oxp with some 'customised' AI

On top of this, it could also be the memory bug of dead ships. Problem is that its hard to tell without analysing the ships.

[Cody]

On top of this, it could also be the memory bug of dead ships. Problem is that its hard to tell without analysing the ships.

Thanks Eric, I understand now (I think). This was in a fairly quiet system, about halfway in. I remained in that vicinity for quite a while, as I was looking (eye-balling all around - you can see other ships/combat from way beyond scanner range) for the other warship.

[cim]

It's the old mothership is dead (STATUS_DEAD) but the mothership object is still in system bug. There are times when I have a lock on a thargoid warship that gets splashed, yet still the lock is still highlighted, leaving a big target box around nothing.

This bug may be fixed in r5641. Nightly build users: please report any further cases you see - I fixed two causes, one of which appears to have been previously unreported, so there's probably a third...

[Cody]

This bug may be fixed in r5641. Nightly build users: please report any further cases you see...

Will do... I'll grab the nightly in the morning. I've been running r5639 for a couple of days, and have noticed a very slight stutter (during combat/explosions, mostly) that I haven't seen before (recently, that is). I emphasise, it is only an impression - but it is catching my eye. Using my standard OXP set, which includes Griff's pyrotechnics.

[Cody]

Question: should inert drones re-activate when another warship comes into range?

[Cody]

I'll presume the answer is no.

[cim]

There's nothing in the core game that does it, no. Not impossible with OXPs, though.

[Commander McLane]

I seem to remember that at least some Thargons from SecondWave OXP can do that trick. Or was it just that they refused to de-activate when their mother got blown up?

Anyway, it would certainly be a nasty surprise for anybody cleaning up a battlefield, if another mothership would jump in, and suddenly all the debris would come to life again and turn hostile!

[Cody]

... it would certainly be a nasty surprise for anybody cleaning up a battlefield...

Yep... it would certainly have made a recent battle in IS a little more more difficult. I'm inclined to think that drones should re-activate, as it happens.