Elite: Dangerous - Design Decision Forum

[Gimi]

Also, this weeks topic including a summary of some of the ideas so far.

“Switch your deflectors on. Double front” – Shields in Elite: Dangerous

“Switch your deflectors on. Double front” – Shields in Elite: Dangerous
No one likes being shot at, even less getting hit. But that’s OK because this is the future and we have shields! Exactly how do they work though? Here’s what we are exploring at the moment:

Current Plan

Depending on ship size there will be one or more emitters, each emitter projects a shield zone around a section of the ship (which in the case of small vessels, may be the entire ship)
Each emitter requires power from a shield generator to create its area of shield
You can add shield generators that supply power to all emitters at the same time
You can add shield generators that give all their power to a single emitter
There is a maximum amount of generators that can be fitted in a ship, based on:
Space available and size of generator
Combined power draw of all components fitted in the ship
Shield zones have a maximum health from which damage is subtracted from before being applied to the hull of the ship
Shield zone maximum health is derived from the combined effect of all shield generators powering that zone
Global shield generators apply a proportional amount of their power depending on how many zones they are assigned to
If powered, a shield zone regenerates its health up to maximum at a set rate, based on the properties from all of the shield generators assigned to it
When a shield generator stops adding power to a shield zone (because it’s damaged or turned off) the zone’s maximum health slowly depletes to a new value based on remaining active generators
Shield zones have a resistance value which is the amount of damage they’re capable of ignoring when hit before damage is applied to its health value
The resistance value is derived from the aggregate of all connected shield generators
Damage occurring within a small enough time window is cumulative, allowing combined attacks to overcome resistance

Issues

So this is our initial take on shields, but there are a number of elements we still need to chew over:

We are going to have a number of different damage types in Elite: Dangerous, including thermal (lasers), kinetic (bullets) and explosives (and possibly more). How should shields interact with these damage types?

In addition, should there be weapons or equipment that is able to disrupt or disable shields directly, and if so, are there any interesting risk/reward mechanics we could employ?

We have the concept of shields and hull integrity, so when shields are down, death does not necessarily occur a heartbeat later. However, what does the shield health to hull integrity ratio look like in your minds? Should flying without any shields be a viable option, or do they form an integral part of every ships defence?

Finally, how should the shields look/what effects could we employ to show when they are powered, shot at, recharging, disabled, broken through etc?

Whatever systems we use, we will attempt to ensure that the rules and game play are legible and promote interesting player choices. This being said, do you think that what we have is too simple/about right, or just too darned complex?

We look forward to seeing which comments get through to us!

Useful headings when replying:

Damage Type
Shield Disruption
Shield/Hull Ratio
Shield Effects

DDF Proposals (up to post #264):

Damage Type

Allow shields to be modified to deal better with certain types of damage, depending on a player’s requirement.
Shields have 4 stats: Armour, Absorption, Health, Deflection. These stats change their effectiveness against different weapons, as well as their general quality.
Kinetic weapons are expensive but effective, to justify their continuing use in the future. Laser weapons are less effective but don’t have the constraint of requiring ammo.
Weapons add heat to objects they are attacking, which if allowed to get too high can cause system disruptions.
Kinetic weapon damage to shields and hulls is partially dependent on the range it is fired from.
Some weapons have a probability of ignoring shields or being completely stopped by shields
As opposed to preventing damage, shields simply reduce it.
Shields defend against all weapon types differently

Shield Disruption

There should only be a single shield generator, which then allocates its power to several emitters (these can be targeted, whereas the generator cannot).
There should be a certain type of weapon designed to disable shields (such as EMP bombs/missiles). This weapon should have little (if any) affect on the hull so you will need to switch weapons once the shields are down.
Types of weapons/missiles that can bypass shields entirely
The only way to disrupt a shield would be to put another shield generator within its sphere of influence.
Cosmic phenomena, like nebulas and space dust can disrupt shields.

Shield/Hull Ratio

Hulls should have better integrity than shields, to compensate for weapon types that ignore shields (such as kinetic weapons, potentially)
Shields most effective against lasers and least effective against kinetic damage (shield and hull are both equally effective against explosive damage)
Players can risk flying without shields (or with them down), for a perk such as being able to reallocate that power to other ship functions.
Explosives a more effective against the hull than shields and require the shield to be sufficiently diminished before having a chance of reaching the hull.
Ratio of 2:1, with shields being your primary defence.
Hulls should be resilient in their own right, only able to be ‘ripped open’ by balistics
Different class ships have different ratios of shield to hull. So merchant ships, for example, would have a more solid hull to reflect the nature of their industry.
Shield is primary defence 3:1
Hull primary defence 1:2

Shield Effects

A ‘slightly deformed’ bubble, which remains an equal distance from the ship hull all around the ship.
Laser blasts ‘scatter’ off of the shield, the weaker the shield, the less scattering.
Shields should be invisible when not taking damage, only lighting up momentarily when hit.
The shield damage effect is visibly more concentrated for hits near the emitter
As the shields takes damage they could vibrate. At first only a gentle shimmer as weapons hit, but becoming a chaotic wobble as the emitter's health is compromised.
When the emitter is very nearly gone, the shields could flicker in and out
Environmental items that collide with the ship should trigger the shield effect, if it has a large enough mass.
Shields increase your visibility/ heat signature to other players, depending on how strong they are (so having your shields off/low is better for stealth)
Colour of shield indicates how much it has been weakened
‘Equalise shields’ button that reallocates shield power over all existing shield emitters equally.
Powered or charging shields should be ‘faintly visible’ at all times

[Cody]

Thanks, Gimi... no access, no input, but...

Should flying without any shields be a viable option

Yes!

[Gimi]

Regarding the discussions around ship shields. While the proposals can look quite overwhelming and complicated, it's worth noting that there are currently quite a few posts in the DDF asking not to complicate things too much. There is also quite a bit of opposition building against equipment that can disable shields.

[Cody]

There is also quite a bit of opposition building against equipment that can disable shields.

Good!

[Gimi]

Thanks, Gimi... no access, no input, but...

Should flying without any shields be a viable option

Yes!

Noted, I have yet to make an input to the discussion and I do agree. My main worry right now is that shield management will be too complicated and that some of the suggestions might unbalance the game (shield disabling equipment).

[Cody]

My main worry right now is that shield management will be too complicated and that some of the suggestions might unbalance the game (shield disabling equipment).

If you have shield-disruptors, then you gotta have shield-disruptor jammers... and so on.

[Zieman]

My main worry right now is that shield management will be too complicated and that some of the suggestions might unbalance the game (shield disabling equipment).

If you have shield-disruptors, then you gotta have shield-disruptor jammers... and so on.

And all that already happened in ELITE-/Ooniverse, jammers and jam-jammers everywhere . It all resulted in everything being full of jam and that's why you have to use constant thrust to move anywhere, the Newtonian (& Einsteinian) physics got jammed .

[JazHaz]

Here's this week's DDF discussion topic:

An enduring and somewhat defining feature of the Elite series is the pilot combat rating. With Elite: Dangerous, we want to investigate ways to improve this from the simple kill count it used to be.

Importantly, we want to add meaning beyond simple bragging rights to commander ratings and access to the odd mission; we think that interesting consequences to commander actions – codified by reputations and ratings – will help the galaxy feel more dynamic, consistent and exciting.

To that end, here is our current line of thinking:

Current Plan

Reputation Rules

• Reputations are numerical values representing the consequences of particular styles of play
• Reputations can go up and down, based on commander actions
  • Reputations have a high watermark value, used to gate themed event content
• Reputation levels can add themed elements to mission/event generation
• Reputation levels can affect NPC response to commanders
• Commanders can suffix their name with an entry based on current reputation levels
  • Each reputation has a number of suffixes unlocked at certain thresholds, e.g. “the silent connection” for a smuggler, or a military rank for mercenary work)
  • A commander’s suffix can be changed at any time from available suffixes
  • Suffixes become unavailable if the associated reputation drops below the threshold for them
• Reputations are hidden from the player except for name suffixes

Reputation Types

Trade

• Increased by: selling cargo at a profit
• Decreased by: losing cargo (lost in space or sold at loss)

Smuggling

• Increased by: selling illegal cargo
• Decreased by: being detected by authorities whilst carrying illegal cargo

Piracy

• Increased by: selling cargo obtained through a declaration of piracy (an explicit player option)
• Decreased by: destroying ships which piracy has been declared against

Mercenary

• Increased by: successfully completing missions for factional navies
• Decreased by: failing to complete missions for factional navies

Bounty Hunting

• Increased by: killing ships that have a bounty
• Decreased by: attacking but not killing ships that have a bounty

Assassination

• Increased by: successfully completing assassination missions
• Decreased by: failing to complete assassination missions

Exploration

• Increased by: selling data (new systems, routes, resources, events)
• Decreased by: losing data before selling it

Espionage

• Increased by: performing data acquisition missions
• Decreased by: failing data acquisition missions

Prospecting

• Increased by: selling resources mined/refined from space
• Decreased by: losing resources mined/refined from space

Factional Allegiance (many)

• Increased by: successfully completing missions and events that increase factional meta-game status
• Decreased by: successfully completing missions and events that decrease factional meta-game status

Criminal Status

• Increased by: committing crimes
• Decreased by: voluntarily paying fines, successfully completing atonement missions and events

Humanity

• Increased by: successfully performing humanitarian missions and events
• Decreased by: successfully performing opportunistic missions and events

Becoming Elite

• Elite is no longer a combat rating – it is literally access to the mysterious organisation bearing the same name
• Being a member of the Elite federation confers many privileges, but access to the organisation is extremely difficult: one must show extraordinary promise in one or more areas to be deemed a potential candidate:
  • Wealth: profit over accumulated net worth (though both values are taken into account)
  • Combat: effectiveness over number of kills (via player rating/ship rating formulas)
  • Knowledge: acquisition of data from sources
  • Influence: high faction/criminal/humanity relationships
• All the above areas are represented internally by values
  • They are visible to the player as human legible ratings, much like an expanded version of the previous games’ combat ratings
  • These values can be made public or hidden
    • Hidden ratings can still be scanned with the correct ship component
• These values never decrease
• At specific value thresholds, elite missions/events become available to the event generator
• Successful resolution of elite missions/events will increase a hidden elite value
• In general, elite missions/events are not necessarily tied to any particular area; they are more intended to test the player in all aspects of game play
• Elite missions/events are more likely to be generated the more areas (wealth, combat etc.) are above the required thresholds
• When the elite value is high enough a commander is invited to join the Elite Federation

As you can see, it’s quite a departure. Hopefully you can see that we’re trying to use hidden reputations as a way to generate interesting game play via missions/events and NPC response, whilst retaining a relatively straight forward set of player-visible ratings to compare and allow progression towards a very meaningful (but completely optional) goal.

Issues

As you can see, this is quite a departure from previous games and there’s quite a lot to think about. Importantly, does this new take ring true, or are we throwing away the baby with the bathwater?

Perhaps you think it’s too complicated? If so, can you think of ways to simplify it whilst retaining its function?

Do you think that any/all of the reputations are unnecessary, and/or are we missing potential game play options out? Are there additional/better methods of quantifying progress up or down a particular reputation?

Have you spotted our declaration of piracy? This is basically a way to tell the game (and the victim) that a “hold up” is in progress. We think it helps quantify “honourable piracy” and increases the chance of variety during piracy, but perhaps we’re being too prescriptive or we’re just getting it wrong?

We are also investigating “streak” bonuses to reputation. For example, a trader that makes a bigger profit with each consecutive sale, or the mercenary that completes multiple navy missions consecutively without failing. Do you think this idea has mileage? How would a streak bonus end for each reputation?

A creaking, splintering in my bones tells me that this topic might end up being a mammoth, as well as very controversial. I think here in the team we’re also less sure of where we stand in this area, which will make the process more intensive for us anyway. So if this topic turns out to be the ultra-beast, I will let it run for longer, delaying any additional topics until we get someplace happy.

[Cody]

Thanks, JH... plenty to ponder there, eh?

[Zieman]

Fruits of the DDF (lost the formatting due to locked thread):

Hello Backers!

Here is the death penalty rules set that we've agreed on, following extensive debate, both in the team and on the forum. I'd like to thank everyone for their involvement!

Death Penalty Rules

When a commander's ship receives catastrophic hull damage (breaks apart) or becomes incapable of supporting life, the commander automatically escapes via an ever-present, indestructible escape pod
Depending on the circumstances the following effects can occur:
In situations where the ship receives an excessive amount of damage in one attack, all cargo inside is destroyed and the hull is obliterated
In situations where a ship has suffered catastrophic but not excessive damage, a percentage of the cargo inside is spilt out and the hull remains
Cargo can be flagged as “fragile” – these are always destroyed and never ejected, allowing us to prevent unwanted multiplication of rare cargo
Event/mission specific cargo can be destroyed or ejected based on mission requirements
Event/mission cargo can have ship module requirements to prevent unwanted outcomes (e.g. an important VIP might only accept a ride in a ship that had cabins featuring automatic escape capsules)
The escape pod transports the commander back to the last station that they docked at
Commanders losing a ship can accrue an excess fee which must be paid straight away
Starter ships with starting equipment have no excess fee
The excess fee is a percentage of the ship’s total value (including equipment)
Any active criminal bounty is transferred to the excess fee
If the commander owns multiple ships they can choose to forgo a replacement ship and avoid the payment, choosing to pilot another ship they own
Any active criminal bounty must still be paid
If the commander cannot afford the excess fee and has no other ships they must use a creditor to pay the fee amount
Once the excess fee has been paid the commander is given a replacement ship and equipment identical to the load out when the ship was docked (the context is that there is an automatic insurance premium applied to all sales)
If the attack was a criminal act:
Cargo collected by anyone other than the commander is flagged as stolen goods
The perpetrator is placed in the “all group” for some game-time duration
The perpetrator has a bounty placed upon them, based on the ratings of ships involved in the attack
Commanders can explicitly become allies with each other, which confer special benefits and penalties:
Allies can pick up cargo spilt from other members’ ships without it being flagged as stolen goods
Only cargo ejected after commanders become allies is treated this way
Allies in the same location gain the same criminal status and penalties for acts any one of them commits

Creditors

There are different types of creditor
Neutral: every docking location has a neutral creditor who offers:
to pay the excess fee amount up front in return for a percentage of all future sales until the loan and interest is accounted for
to do the above but include a credit sum to help the player get back on their feet
The credit sum is equal to the value of the excess
Additional uses of the neutral creditor simply increase the debt
There is a debt cap, beyond which debt is written off
To give the player a Sidewinder ship with basic equipment fitted
Factional: some docking stations have Federation/Imperial/Criminal affiliated creditors who offer:
To pay an excess fee amount up front in return for services rendered (Repayment Missions)
To do the above but include a credit sum to help the commander get back on their feet
The credit sum is equal to the value of the excess

Repayment Missions

Repayment missions are offered by some creditors and:
Are only available when the creditor’s faction relationship is above a set threshold
Are always timed
Reduce the creditor’s faction relationship if failed (potentially triggering additional adversarial events)
Can involve adversarial activity against opposing factions
Can be “bought out” by paying a lump sum equal to the debt, though some faction loss will still occur

Ironman Elite
During commander creation the player may set the "ironman" flag. Ironman commanders can never be grouped with normal commanders. Players can use the same name for both normal and ironman commanders.

Escape pod systems can be damaged and made inoperable (they are still invincible once launched)
Escape pods are disposable: after use, a new pod can be purchased
Escape pods must be manually activated
Failure to use an escape pod permanently kills the commander if the ship suffers catastrophic hull damage (breaks apart)
Permanently killed commanders can be resurrected as a normal commander (no ironman flag), continuing from when they died
Ship warning systems and visual/aural cues activate when the ship nears total operational failure
The commander is not killed by any amount of ship operational failure
Commanders have emergency personal life support which activates in the event of life support failure
Personal life support can only sustain a commander for a limited time, but restocks when the commander is in a breathable atmosphere
If a commander's personal life support runs out the commander is permanently killed

This Ironman option looks very interesting.
Oolite challenge group for various co-op stuff anyone?

[Cody]

Hmm... thanks, Zieman.

If the commander owns multiple ships they can choose to forgo a replacement ship and avoid the payment, choosing to pilot another ship they own

So one can own multiple ships, yes? How are they gonna work that?

[Disembodied]

Here's this week's DDF discussion topic:

Do you think that any/all of the reputations are unnecessary, and/or are we missing potential game play options out? Are there additional/better methods of quantifying progress up or down a particular reputation?

One career type which could have its own reputation might be "Courier". Granted, there could be courier-type missions built in to other careers, such as espionage, etc., but it could be a career choice on its own. Reputation would be increased by making deliveries on time (the quicker the better), and, obviously, decreased by failing to make them on time. There might also be a reputation for passenger transport.

[Ramirez]

That's a good idea - I was going to rush to post it on the DDF but after a quick check I found it's already been captured by the devs as 'taxi/carrier'. There I was hunting for keywords like 'passenger' and 'courier'...

[Disembodied]

That's a good idea - I was going to rush to post it on the DDF but after a quick check I found it's already been captured by the devs as 'taxi/carrier'. There I was hunting for keywords like 'passenger' and 'courier'...

Glad to hear it!

Fruits of the DDF (lost the formatting due to locked thread):

If the attack was a criminal act:
Cargo collected by anyone other than the commander is flagged as stolen goods

Presumably, though, it's possible for someone not involved in an illegal attack to come across drifting cargo and salvage it. In this instance, would the salvager get the option to see that the goods are flagged as "stolen", and hand them in for some sort of (possibly minor) reward? The reward would be less than the market value of the goods, of course.

Is "Salvager/Scavenger" a potential career path, worthy of a reputation ranking?

[Wolfwood]

That's a good idea - I was going to rush to post it on the DDF but after a quick check I found it's already been captured by the devs as 'taxi/carrier'. There I was hunting for keywords like 'passenger' and 'courier'...

Now we'll just see who will become the first _Elite_ taxi driver...