Split: Difficulty for new players

[Mad Dan Eccles]

Ah, I've not seen one yet. Well, I might easily have passed it without knowing, of course (and I do slow down whenever I'm in an asteroid field to look for the guys), but that's the same thing

[Cody]

I might easily have passed it without knowing, of course (and I do slow down whenever I'm in an asteroid field to look for the guys), but that's the same thing

Have you tried the [wiki]Rock_Hermit_Locator[/wiki] OXP? Very handy, is that!

[cim]

I might easily have passed it without knowing, of course (and I do slow down whenever I'm in an asteroid field to look for the guys), but that's the same thing

Have you tried the [wiki]Rock_Hermit_Locator[/wiki] OXP? Very handy, is that!

Or you could just give one of the local pirates a meal in exchange for them taking you there.

[Mad Dan Eccles]

Have you tried the [wiki]Rock_Hermit_Locator[/wiki] OXP? Very handy, is that!

I knew it existed, but consider it a little bit cheating! It makes the game too easy

[Cody]

I might easily have passed it without knowing, of course (and I do slow down whenever I'm in an asteroid field to look for the guys), but that's the same thing

Have you tried the [wiki]Rock_Hermit_Locator[/wiki] OXP? Very handy, is that!

Or you could just give one of the local pirates a meal in exchange for them taking you there.

<nods> Or stop and scan space for those distant tiny explosions - a sure sign of a belter at work.

<nods at MDE too>

[Mad Dan Eccles]

<nods> Or stop and scan space for those distant tiny explosions - a sure sign of a belter at work.

<nods at MDE too>

<nods back>

I always change course when I see a distant explosion. Unless I'm already heading directly for it, of course

[Diziet Sma]

<nods>

I'll persevere with Commander Nooby, too. Maybe he's just been really unlucky so far...

I'd suggest starting a new Commander Nooby (several times, in fact) - he does seem to have been extraordinarily unlucky!

From the comments I've seen from some newcomers of late, Commander Nooby may well have been doing better than average. We've had at least a couple of reports of really bad rolls of the dice.. over and over again, in one case.

But for someone who wants to begin to learn how to start thinking about playing that sort of game, there's no way in except to launch, fly, get killed, reload, launch, fly, get killed, reload, launch, fly, squeak through that time maybe, rinse, repeat.

Having the option of a (usually) quiet run to e.g. Isinor doesn't diminish the game: rather, it lets beginners have a chance to learn how to fly, and how to dock, and gives them a chance to see a few sights, and get a bit of money coming in so they can buy some injectors and an ECM and maybe a Beam laser and then go out and find out that combat needs more than just a bit of kit ...

Now this reminds me of something my flatmate mentioned.. (I should note at this point that she'd already expressed some interest in Oolite, and had gotten so far as a couple of docking attempts, but that's about it, to date. She now insists that for the proposed Nooby-experiment, she gets to borrow my joystick, as keyboard control is just waaaayy too retro for her. I dunno.. kids these days.. )

Anyways.. She remarked that most modern games with controls of this level of complexity, usually have a tutorial/training mode which teaches the player about the controls and how they function, and walks them through the first stage or two of the game so they can get a feel for things.

It then occurred to me that Oolite could really use some kind of a Tutorial OXP, which newbies could install, and which would teach them the basic controls, show them the ropes, and handhold them through their first couple of trades & jumps. It could have them stick to safe systems, and perhaps automatically remove any pirates that were spawned. After some predetermined point, such as the 3rd or 4th successful run, it could switch itself off and let the player get on with things.

The Oolite mission-screens system, HUD switching/overlays and scripting abilities would seem to be just about at the point now where such an OXP might be feasible.. what do you all think?

[Cody]

She remarked that most modern games with controls of this level of complexity...

Complex? Really? Hmm...

[Diziet Sma]

Compared to your average x-box/ps3 game, yep.. there's a lot of buttons to push..

[Cody]

Compared to your average x-box/ps3 game, yep.. there's a lot of buttons to push..

'Push the button, pull the switch, cut the beam... make it march!'

Has Miss Noob tried Oolite's mouse control?

[Diziet Sma]

No.. nor is she keen to try it.. (in the interests of "a thorough experiment" I do plan on getting her to give it a shot, though.. even if I have to appeal to the scientist in her.. [she's one year off a double-degree in Geology])

Actually, the remark about the "complexity" of Oolite's controls is one I've heard from a number of members of the Playstation Generation..

[Disembodied]

Both successful trips in to Isinor - which is a Confederacy, after all

That's a couple of steps up the risk rating and probably should be tricky-to-fatal for a new player in a new ship, though. Isinor-Ensoreus is already one of the best trade routes for safe profit (Teanrebi-Tianve is the only better in Chart 1!). I don't have a problem with genuine new players having to stick to Leesti-Diso until they've got a few upgrades to their ship.

Thinking about it: this is where the Elite economic model doesn't help. Isinor-Ensoreus should be better than Leesti-Diso, but not that much better. It certainly shouldn't be better than Leesti-Riedquat, or equal to Anarlaqu-Zadies, in expected profit. OXP time, I think...

This is a good point - but the problem with the Leesti-Diso run is that the obvious choice for the beginner for a destination from Lave isn't Leesti, it's Zaonce - and once you're in Zaonce, the only way back to Leesti and Diso is through Lave.

Maybe the easiest solution would be to tinker, gently, with the economics of selected systems around Lave. I say this at the risk of causing hyperventilation and panic belching among the purists, of course, but if Zaonce was downgraded from Average to Poor, and Leesti bumped up from Poor to Average, then the new players might be steered there, rather than drawn out into deeper waters. Ensoreus might also be dropped from Rich to Average, too, or turned into a "Mostly Industrial" perhaps, just to avoid placing such a prime run so close to Lave.

[cim]

This is a good point - but the problem with the Leesti-Diso run is that the obvious choice for the beginner for a destination from Lave isn't Leesti, it's Zaonce - and once you're in Zaonce, the only way back to Leesti and Diso is through Lave.

Depends how much planning you're doing. Leesti-Diso you can see both ends of from your starting position and they're both safe. Zaonce-Lave looks risky. Zaonce-Tionisla isn't a trade route. Zaonce-Isinor is good, but if you don't know Isinor is there then you have to do a lot of querying of the long range chart to find it, and that's time-consuming. Even with Oolite's user interface improved a little over Elite's, you really need one of the external maps to find it quickly.

Well, different approaches for different people... I always (Elite and Oolite) went straight for Leesti-Diso, and then generally left the Old Worlds heading north through Reorte, then east through the Xexedi cluster to reach the rest of G1, or continue north to the worlds around Teorge for a bit - and by then I had a ship good enough not to need that safe a route. I only "discovered" Isinor-Ensoreus after reading a chance remark on this forum.

Maybe the easiest solution would be to tinker, gently, with the economics of selected systems around Lave. I say this at the risk of causing hyperventilation and panic belching among the purists, of course, but if Zaonce was downgraded from Average to Poor, and Leesti bumped up from Poor to Average, then the new players might be steered there, rather than drawn out into deeper waters. Ensoreus might also be dropped from Rich to Average, too, or turned into a "Mostly Industrial" perhaps, just to avoid placing such a prime run so close to Lave.

I was going to say "if you're going to modify that much, why not just start somewhere other than Lave" but I can't actually think of anywhere better in Chart 1. Places with a good but not great safe trade route visible, a low-ish hub count, and a choice of usable routes to the rest of the map are pretty rare.

[Disembodied]

Depends how much planning you're doing. Leesti-Diso you can see both ends of from your starting position and they're both safe.

I don't think I was ever that sensible ... I always just assumed that Zaonce would be best, and took it for granted that there would be places to go when I got there!

Well, different approaches for different people... I always (Elite and Oolite) went straight for Leesti-Diso, and then generally left the Old Worlds heading north through Reorte, then east through the Xexedi cluster to reach the rest of G1, or continue north to the worlds around Teorge for a bit - and by then I had a ship good enough not to need that safe a route. I only "discovered" Isinor-Ensoreus after reading a chance remark on this forum.

That sounds pretty sensible, really. I've always assumed that most new players will think, "Leesti is Poor, and in the direction of the map edge, whereas Zaonce is Average, and in the direction of most of the rest of the galaxy"; and then they'll zip off to Zaonce without thinking a bit harder about things, like I did. But maybe most players are smarter than me!

[Cody]

... different approaches for different people... I always (Elite and Oolite) went straight for Leesti-Diso...

The first thing I did when I found Oolite was re-learn how to fly a Cobra - bumps and circuits around Lave aegis, dock and launch a few times, etc. Then, with an empty hold and only one missile, I dived into the first wormhole that appeared, not even knowing if it was possible - and took it from there.