Re: Elite: Dangerous - and the return

[Diziet Sma]

Dat be a Krait, fo' sho'..

[Selezen]

Dat be a Krait, fo' sho'..

So says the filename.

I'm a bit concerned about the statement that future updates or expansions will be payware. Coupled with the statement that the actual release will not include much of the gameplay that we've all been looking for it's starting to look like ED will be a bit of a money pit for us poor players. And it may be a disappointment to many on its release too.

Worry factor 5, captain.

[DaddyHoggy]

Yeah, apparently those who pay £90 or more now will get the updates for free, which, according to some of the ED comments, is a bargain...

As another Space genre character used to say "I've got a bad feeling about this..."

[Selezen]

£90 for an incomplete game with expansions and updates that may or may not come. Remember the same thing was said about FFE - expansions would be forthcoming...

Basing a £90 spend on promises by a company that has a less than stellar track record on Elite-related promises seems to be something that should be very very carefully considered before committing.

[DaddyHoggy]

£90 for an incomplete game with expansions and updates that may or may not come. Remember the same thing was said about FFE - expansions would be forthcoming...

Basing a £90 spend on promises by a company that has a less than stellar track record on Elite-related promises seems to be something that should be very very carefully considered before committing.

Which is why I can't bring myself to commit beyond one of those 10K £20 pledges (plus the money I gave to Boz and Drew) - because it's steadily becoming less and less a game I will actually want to play...

[maaarcooose]

This doesn't sound too promising either:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012- ... r-frontier

I really dislike the idea that game updates will need to be paid for. DLC, yes.

Hmmmm...

!m!

[Selezen]

Hmm, not a great thing, but more because of the proximity to Christmas than the actual layoffs.

I'm not sure how the layoffs would affect ED. Remember my aversion to journalism and the "incomplete" nature of 99% of reporting. No-one has reported WHY the layoffs have happened and no-one from FD has said why.

Consider the possibility that FD's primary output in recent years has been kiddie games or Wii games that are, let's face it, pretty crap. I mean...Kinectimals?? Rollercoaster Tycoon? Really David??

Also there are mobile apps there and other such things. The Managing Director said that recruitment was beginning in line with the future direction of the company's products so this could indicate that the focus will be coming off Kinect and Mobile development and back to PC software.

So this could be a good sign for ED, actually. It may also indicate a commitment to moving forward with ED even if the Kickstarter fails.

Bottom line is that we don't know. Subjective opinion is that DB would not have put as much focus on ED if there wasn't a serious intent to produce the game. We don't know what the actual goals of the kickstarter were. It may just be that they were looking for x amount of people who contributed. As of this writing, 16,171 people have pledged. If you want that in hard sales that's 16,000 units sold. At £30 a pop (realistically) that's £485,000 income. Nearly half a million quid worth of interest. I'm on £35k or so in my dev job so that would pay for ten of me for a year with a good bit left over for profit or other considerations.

I think those kind of figures would promote the bean counters to start committing to the project and moving the direction of the company to align with that development path. Who knows, maybe the research is towards devoting a percentage of the company's outlays into developing and supporting Elite and its multiplayer facilities, much like the creators of EVE Online have done.

Looking at the markets, there are several online games that make profit - EVE, Everquest, WoW etc. There is a considerable interest in multiplayer space games (EVE again, Star Trek Online, the Star Wars games and so on) and in single player games (the X Series) that has held the torch for Elite for decades. If FD are committed to ED and delivering the game they describe then it could be a good thing. The path Mr Braben described in the last video sounds very much like the strategy for most MMORPGs - initial release, followed by expansion packs and updates, all linked to central servers that will expand as the game expands.

I'll wait and see. I just hope that FD and DB in particular listen VERY carefully to the input from the fans and create a game that will make them happy rather than listening then discarding the feedback...

[Gimi]

I'm not sure how the layoffs would affect ED. Remember my aversion to journalism and the "incomplete" nature of 99% of reporting. No-one has reported WHY the layoffs have happened and no-one from FD has said why.

This was said by Michael (FD employee) in the Kickstarter comments section:

It was sad news. Unfortunately we're not making the big content heavy games that needed so many people to make. This doesn't effect our ability to make Elite: Dangerous. Michael

And given what FD has stated to some news sites its obvious that they are optimising staff composition. They are still hiring in other skill categories. I'm quite convinced that there will be no impact on their ability to make E:D.
Not good timing though, but I'm not sure there is such a thing as a good time to let employees go.

[Selezen]

It was sad news. Unfortunately we're not making the big content heavy games that needed so many people to make. This doesn't effect our ability to make Elite: Dangerous. Michael

That doesn't scan well for ED though, if you read it in a certain way (thus highlighting the problem with paper based reporting). It could be implied that ED is not a BIG, CONTENT HEAVY GAME (punctuation added by me based on subjective grammatical experience rather than Michael's meaning).

What's Michael's definition of a content heavy game? What is FD's definition of such.

The implication could be that the content for ED is largely done. It could mean that the content for ED isn't hard to actually make. It could mean anything.

Anyway, it's a sad thing to hear. Hopefully ED will not be affected (as claimed) and will be content heavy and big on its release despite the ominous overtones of a quickly composed comment.

[Gimi]

That doesn't scan well for ED though, if you read it in a certain way (thus highlighting the problem with paper based reporting). It could be implied that ED is not a BIG, CONTENT HEAVY GAME (punctuation added by me based on subjective grammatical experience rather than Michael's meaning).

What's Michael's definition of a content heavy game? What is FD's definition of such.

The implication could be that the content for ED is largely done. It could mean that the content for ED isn't hard to actually make. It could mean anything.

Anyway, it's a sad thing to hear. Hopefully ED will not be affected (as claimed) and will be content heavy and big on its release despite the ominous overtones of a quickly composed comment.

I personally think that analysis is a bit unfair. I have done some searching on the internet, and a high personnel turnover seems to be very common in the games industry, which seems natural as it's more or less project based.

Frontiers announcement was:

"Frontier regretfully has given a total of 14 people (from a staff of 233) notice that their roles are redundant, across art (9), animation (3) and audio (2) disciplines. This is due to the changing mix of skills requirements for our current and future projects - it is not a reflection on the company's prospects, which remain healthy,"

Which suggests to me that they are optimising staff for future efforts. Hope the people they had to let go get picked up really fast and preferably before X-mas.

[Selezen]

I personally think that analysis is a bit unfair. I have done some searching on the internet, and a high personnel turnover seems to be very common in the games industry, which seems natural as it's more or less project based.

It wasn't an analysis as such - I was asking more questions than I was addressing. I was just pointing out the fact that Michael's comment muddied the waters a bit and made things less clear. My actual opinion on the matter is that Frontier's redundancies are clearing out the staff that have experience and skill at the sort of games they have released up til now (Wii, mobile apps, etc) and making room for people that will be more "Elite-y" in their knowledge bases...

Which suggests to me that they are optimising staff for future efforts. Hope the people they had to let go get picked up really fast and preferably before X-mas.

The post I made before my last one kinda says exactly what you're saying in your first sentence there.

[Disembodied]

What's Michael's definition of a content heavy game? What is FD's definition of such.

It's just an assumption, but I would see "content" in this instance as e.g. pre-rendered animations, unique individual characters, backgrounds, music etc. - not the sort of material that's called for in a procedurally generated game like E:D. E:D's content would be more emergent and less pre-scripted (I would imagine).

[ClymAngus]

Working in the CGI post production industry I do have to say that there are very few permanent (if that's even a term you can use in this day and age) staff. Long term prospect for artists (and it is artistic turn over we're talking about here) is spans of short term contracts.

TV and film Production (much like games production) comes in blocks, first you get your wave of modelers, riggers, then animators, lighters then compositors. A good producer works with HR to crest the wave of people skills at the time the production needs it. Now the skill-set needed is a little different for game production but the principle of horses for courses remains essentially the same.

So you would expect there to be a considerable ebb and flow of creative staff in and out of any games company depending on projects they have "in the door". I would worry if they were hemorrhaging PROGRAMMERS, which they're not. So why does this sound so worrying?

I would argue it comes down to the "way" this has been reported. The ebb and flow of freelance artists is not news. The callous redundancy of excellent game talent turned out onto the cold unforgiving street days before Christmas...... IS. There is no news like bad news. Sexing up reality gets you extra clicks which gets you better stats, which enables you to woo higher paying advertisers.

This isn't news, or even a mild concern. It's click hogging.

What is concerning is the straight maths; stats and track record.

[Cody]

They've put a teaser up - thing is, how much of it is actually in-game?
Those three chords at 0.55 sound familiar... I think.

[Wolfwood]

They say that all of it is in-game, except for the first image (concept art of the station)