Inverse control for aft view

[Mad Hollander]

I'll back you up, but unfortunately I don't see too much interest for this among the more experienced players.

That should not stop you from asking, and it has been requested before, so you are not alone.
I suspect that it's a matter of how difficult/complex it is to implement the feature in the code.

Ok, I'll create some request in the "Suggestion Box"

[Smivs]

...unfortunately I don't see too much interest for this among the more experienced players.

Well, there's a good reason for that. Put simply, as your skills develop such things become un-necessary. And it is the development of such skills which ultimately give much more pleasure from the game - not only is it a great game, but the sense of satisfaction grows as you get better at it.
It's like the old Docking Computer conundrum - at first docking is really hard and everybody wants to get a DC as fast as possible, but by the time you can afford one you are good at docking, and the 'need' for a DC diminishes. It's probably true to say that most 'experienced' players seldom use their docking computer.

[Gimi]

Well, there's a good reason for that. Put simply, as your skills develop such things become un-necessary. And it is the development of such skills which ultimately give much more pleasure from the game - not only is it a great game, but the sense of satisfaction grows as you get better at it.
It's like the old Docking Computer conundrum - at first docking is really hard and everybody wants to get a DC as fast as possible, but by the time you can afford one you are good at docking, and the 'need' for a DC diminishes. It's probably true to say that most 'experienced' players seldom use their docking computer.

Quite true Smivs, but for those that grew up with Oolite Elite on the Spectrum this was an integral part of the game. So of course they would use it, and then got used to it regardless of how skilled they were. So I can understand the request even though I don't have a need for it myself.

Edit: Because

[Diziet Sma]

for those that grew up with Oolite on the Spectrum

Gasp! Time-machines are real!

[Smivs]

Quite true Smivs, but for those that grew up with Oolite on the Spectrum this was an integral part of the game. So of course they would use it, and then got used to it regardless of how skilled they were.

Indeed that is so, and I certainly understand that those used to such a feature could miss it. I played on a C64 which I don't think had this feature, so I got used to reversing the 'stick
However I don't find that necessary any more as I can now switch mentally to 'reverse mode' easily. It's a useful skill, and one which actually didn't take too long to master either, so hopefully the others can adapt quickly and easily.

[Cody]

I 'mastered' that knack on Elite Plus using only the keyboard for flight control.

[Mad Hollander]

...unfortunately I don't see too much interest for this among the more experienced players.

Well, there's a good reason for that. Put simply, as your skills develop such things become un-necessary. And it is the development of such skills which ultimately give much more pleasure from the game - not only is it a great game, but the sense of satisfaction grows as you get better at it.

Yes, the inversion significantly impacts on the game balance. This is different problem and can be solved in several ways.
In example military laser can consume more energy than current version or, another solution, energy can be consumed during the cooldown, not jsut during fire. This way the skills of the players who are already strong enough will never become unnecessary.

I think the inverse of the aft view is much better than any railguns and other Big guns from the various OXP. I mean that balance should be kept just for 'straight' Oolite, without any 'battle'-oxp.

[Smivs]

Ha, this is an interesting discussion because it touches on the differences beteween the various versions of Elite. As I mentioned above my early experience was on a C64 which didn't have this function. As far as I know Oolite is broadly based on the BBC version of Elite which presumably also didn't have it.
Does anybody know the breakdown of this, in other words which versions did and which did not have this function?

[Cody]

I don't recall it on BBC Elite - Elite Plus had it, but you had to pause the game first, which is an immersion-breaker.

[Disembodied]

Yes, the inversion significantly impacts on the game balance. This is different problem and can be solved in several ways.
In example military laser can consume more energy than current version or, another solution, energy can be consumed during the cooldown, not jsut during fire. This way the skills of the players who are already strong enough will never become unnecessary.

I think the inverse of the aft view is much better than any railguns and other Big guns from the various OXP. I mean that balance should be kept just for 'straight' Oolite, without any 'battle'-oxp.

But is a better solution not just to practice until you develop the skills, rather than to create a shortcut and then patch more game changes on top of that in order to stop the shortcut making the game too easy? I think any change which has a significant impact on game balance will always be OXP-only - which probably means that this won't be feasible, since an OXP (as far as I know) won't be able to alter control keys or laser energy consumption.

[superbatprime]

Honestly I think this would be way OP.
May as well just have laser coolers.

You could just all stop and become a turret in space, flipping 180 every time you overheat, you'd never have to even think about watching your fire rate.

I use aft lasers often enough and have become adept at handling the reversal of the pitch.
But it still requires concentration... and skill ( granted not as much as using side lasers, that's tough and rightly so).

Aft lasers for me are mainly backup because I foolishly let my front overheat or discouraging pursuit or because I played chicken and let him pass.

(or for cheeky ACM, I like doing a 90 degree pitch down, single burst inject and use aft laser to rake the bottom of his hull as he passes).

As for reversing your joystick... ok fair enough the player can do that with the stick on their desk but you can't do that in your ship if you know what I mean.

Seriously, if aft view inverted the pitch to match the front I'd be invincible.
If you're in a dogfight and the guy gets behind you... you messed up, that's the golden rule, get on his six, keep him off yours.

I think having aft lasers at all is generous enough, the reversal of pitch is your punishment for allowing yourself to get into a situation where you have a hostile craft on your tail.

IMO.

[Diziet Sma]

As for reversing your joystick... ok fair enough the player can do that with the stick on their desk but you can't do that in your ship if you know what I mean.

Heh.. reversing a modern stick is a PITA anyway.. take mine, for example..



Far simpler just to practice and acquire some skillz.

[Tricky]

I use the side lasers for a surprise attack. Match forward vector, switch to a side view, say hi and then... FIRE!!!

[Ranthe]

After reading this thread, I'm experimenting with separating out the "forward" and "aft" controls by using the standard keyboard arrow controls when in forward view (because this is the way I do all my flying and my play has been conditioned to this) and using the arrow keys on the numeric keypad (i.e. NUMLOCK off) for flying when viewing aft.

So far it looks promising...

[Mad Hollander]

After reading this thread, I'm experimenting with separating out the "forward" and "aft" controls by using the standard keyboard arrow controls when in forward view (because this is the way I do all my flying and my play has been conditioned to this) and using the arrow keys on the numeric keypad (i.e. NUMLOCK off) for flying when viewing aft.

So far it looks promising...

How is possible to remap the keys in such way ?