Rock hermit saving

[Draco_Caeles]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before; apologies if it has. I just docked with a rock hermit and tried to save, and couldn't. Is that accidental or deliberate?

Also, could there perhaps be a method implemented of 'remembering' rock hermit locations, so they could be visited more than once? Perhaps a different colour blip on the scanner?

D.C.

[aegidian]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before; apologies if it has. I just docked with a rock hermit and tried to save, and couldn't. Is that accidental or deliberate?

It's deliberate - save at one of Galcop's approved stations.

And yes, it's because Rock Hermits aren't necessarily persistent inside the game - whereas stations are (or are meant to be!).

[Odo987]

And yes, it's because Rock Hermits aren't necessarily persistent inside the game - whereas stations are (or are meant to be!).

I always thought that deploying an energy bomb inside the docking tunnel should do ... something. What with it being a confined space and all that. Even if it just blasted you out backwards at ludicrous speed into the planet's surface.

Guess those stations are built from 100% pure Unobtainium. I need to get me some of that for my hull.

[Flying_Circus]

There are no blast waves in space, even if it is a cool-looking (and hence massively over-used) 3D special effect.

[Odo987]

There are no blast waves in space, even if it is a cool-looking (and hence massively over-used) 3D special effect.

You mean like the Q mine?

Or these:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/apo ... blast+wave

[JensAyton]

There are no blast waves in space, even if it is a cool-looking (and hence massively over-used) 3D special effect.

…except for the expanding cloud of matter released by an explosion. It’d have to be going very fast to have the sort of energy density often portrayed, though.

You mean like the Q mine?

Nah, that’s clearly highly radioactive dust. (The slowness of the effect’s propagation is a tad weird, really.

Or these:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/apo ... blast+wave

Those come in two categories: bursts of radiation, which aren’t much good at applying impulses (sudden acceleration) to ships (although they might do other unpleasant things), and waves of matter in nebulae consisting of extremely sparse gas and dust, which wouldn’t have much effect on a ship either.

[Odo987]

Nah, that’s clearly highly radioactive dust.

Hmm, if we assume that the Q mine causes a self-sustaining chain reaction in matter (thus vapourising a ship or asteroid), why don't extremely entertaining things happen when one drops one at a planet or star?

Those come in two categories: bursts of radiation, which aren’t much good at applying impulses (sudden acceleration) to ships (although they might do other unpleasant things),

Agreed. Hope the pilot is wearing sunglasses.

and waves of matter in nebulae consisting of extremely sparse gas and dust, which wouldn’t have much effect on a ship either.

Sure, once it is spread out over an area measured in cubic lightyears, it is extremely sparse. But at its origin, confined by a reasonably tight-fitting docking tunnel, we're turning a ship into a bullet. Projectile guns will fire just fine in space (despite what Jayne says about Vera).

[JensAyton]

Sure, once it is spread out over an area measured in cubic lightyears, it is extremely sparse. But at its origin, confined by a reasonably tight-fitting docking tunnel, we're turning a ship into a bullet.

With a gun, you've got the explosive initially taking up all the space behind a snugly-fitting bullet. With a smallish bomb in the open space behind a ship with space around it on all sides, and no medium in that space, you just won’t be able to build up comparable pressure. There’s not enough matter in the bomb. The kinetic energy given to the ship will come from the first-order particle impacts; if their momentum is sufficient to be significant, it seems unlikely the walls of the tunnel will be strong and elastic enough to bounce them back.

In short, I’m not convinced. :-)

[Odo987]

There’s not enough matter in the bomb.

The force on the ship would be a function of impacting mass times the acceleration of said mass. So the amount of matter in and of itself isn't sufficient to calculate the force. A good example of this is Project Orion where they wanted to detonate a Hydrogen bomb behind a spaceship. The bombs only weighed a quarter ton, but the plasma provided an order of magnitude more thrust than a Space Shuttle Main Engine. And this was happening in open space, with 90% of the energy lost.

Let's look at it from a thermodynamics point of view. There's a significant amount of energy present (whatever the form). Where does that energy go? Thanks to the station's Unobtanium walls, 100% of that energy must exit through the docking port opening. And your ship is in the way.

[lex_talionis]

this is getting scarily technical...

[JensAyton]

Let's look at it from a thermodynamics point of view. There's a significant amount of energy present (whatever the form). Where does that energy go? Thanks to the station's Unobtanium walls, 100% of that energy must exit through the docking port opening. And your ship is in the way.

Where did you get the idea that station walls can't take any damage, or absorb energy as heat? Besides, the energy that escapes through the mouth of the tunnel doesn't need to be imparted on your ship; a snug fit is necessary for a firearm analogy to work.

[JensAyton]

So, I caved in and asked my local physicist. He said that if you’re less than about four tunnel diameters from the bomb, only the blastfront is relevant. If you’re about 10 TD from the blast, funnelling effects come into play. If the ship is taking up most of the tunnel, the distances required become somewhat shorter. Even if the tunnel is indestructable and perfectly elastic, the second-order hits of particles bouncing around aren’t going to give the ship a huge impulse if the blastfront didn’t; they’d be quite happy to bounce around the obstacle.

[Odo987]

Where did you get the idea that station walls can't take any damage,

Taking damage (short of rupturing the station) doesn't help dissipate energy. Indeed if the walls ablate at all, it merely increases the amount of matter present.

... or absorb energy as heat?

Ok, if the station's cooling system can take the bite out of a fusion-class explosion, I want the number of their thermal engineers. Absorbing and dissipating 10.7 million watts in a fraction of a second is impressive!

Besides, the energy that escapes through the mouth of the tunnel doesn't need to be imparted on your ship; a snug fit is necessary for a firearm analogy to work.

Assuming that a Cobra III weighs about 100 tons, based on data from Project Orion a single blast would give it a kick of about 1040 m/s. Given the reflection of the primary blast off the back wall of the station, that gives a second kick of the same magnitude. Not counting any other factors (such as double reflections or side containment) you are travelling backwards at a speed in excess of 2km/second. Subtract a few m/s if you hit the nav beacon on the way out. Even in real life you'd chew through the 361km between ISS and Earth in 3 minutes. Much less in the distorted geometry of Elite.

[winston]

I was always under the impression that an energy bomb was an EMP device more than an explosive device (although how it creates the EMP, and how the launching ship doesn't get hit by the EMP is left as an exercise for the reader)