An alternative to buying ships

[Smivs]

I had an idea! <Waits for everyone to stop laughing >
We have all got used to the way we buy ships in Oolite, and many of us have played for ages to save up for the ship of our dreams. Many others have probably just blatantly cheated to increase their funds.
But why do we have to pay the full amount up-front? Yes, I know that's the way the game is set up, but does it have to be that way?
The only in-game alternative that I'm aware of is to take out a loan from the Black Monks, with all the problems that can flow from that, and borrowing enough for a ship purchase is probably not a realistic option. And you still have to pay the full amount up-front.
In the 'real World' when say looking for a new car, there is another option - leasing. You put down a deposit, then you pay a monthly rental fee, usually for a fixed period. You never actually get to own the vehicle, but most packages include servicing, tax etc, and the system basically means that you always have a well-maintained, reasonably new vehicle with predictable monthly costs. There is a lot to be said for this arrangement.
I suspect something similar could be done quite easily by OXP for the core ships (and probably existing OXP ships), and could easily be a designed-in feature for an OXP ship, particularly a potentially expensive one.
As I said, just an idea. What do you good folks think?

[quatermass]

Sounds interesting, but as in real life Iwould need to check the small print.

[submersible]

Good idea - and opens the door for RepoMan.OXP , if you miss a payment you're hounded through the 8 by jerks from the galactic ministry of debt recovery.

[Shipbuilder]

Smivs - Sounds like a good idea to me. One question or something to think about is what happens if you can't make a payment ?

Perhaps you are fined, persued by representatives of the hire company or maybe your ship is confiscated and you are provided with a much less capable ship until you can meet the payments due.

[Commander McLane]

It could be done by OXP, simply by awarding the player the amount of credits needed up-front. Sort of a variation of the Black Monks loan, only with a variable loan (the Black Monks only lend you a fixed amount of 20.000, which gets you nowhere for buying a ship). If I'm not mistaken, Svengali's keyboard (which is used for instance in Vector OXP) can be used for the player to enter the amount of credits they need. I don't think the ship prices are exposed to JS, so a script has no way of knowing how expensive a certain ship is automatically.

Then the buying itself would just be normal, because at that point the player would just have enough credits.

Making the payments is indeed the tricky part. Setting the number and size of the payments, and the deadline for each payment is got to be a matter of very delicate balance. And I guess, once they've got their ship-of-dreams, many players are going to underestimate the pressure of making money for their payments.

Finally, there is the question of what would be happening if the player doesn't have enough credits when a payment is due. One way would be to auto-sell their cargo (especially the valuables) at market price of the current station, perhaps even beyond the station's 127-units-holding-limit. (That would bring the player in another trouble, if he also has a contract going at the time. Tough luck, I'd say.) But what if even selling all cargo doesn't give enough cash for the payment? There's one last resort, which is usable from 1.77 onwards: auto-sell the ship and put the player back in a basic Cobra III. The difference between the current value of the leased ship and the price of a new Cobra III would become the player's new balance, minus all still outstanding payments. And that would be the end of the transaction.

If I were to write this, that would be the direction I'd be going. … Hmm, perhaps I should give it a go, anyway?

[Smivs]

Hmm, perhaps I should give it a go, anyway?

Go ahead It was just an idle thought I had. I wasn't intending to try and develop it myself.

[DeathKnyte]

hmmm....

You know, when I started playing, I was constantly envisioning how great it would be if I could upgrade from the starting Cobra Mk. III to something "better". I was always looking at the choice offered in the Oolite Reference Sheet (comes with the game), comparing values.
When I had enough for a Python, I held off, saying that I'd go straight for a Boa instead of losing the value on that investment. Then I held off for the Boa Class Cruiser - which I purchased. Next I worked my way to the Anaconda, and then (downgraded) to the Fer-de-Lance.

Having experienced all the above, I am now considering on going back to the Cobra Mk. III, as it is the best overall one, and you know what? I started the game with it.

It's not that hard to make credits in the game, and once you have about 800,000, there's no ship you can't afford and completely outfit.

So, the option of leasing, I would not consider as something which really adds to the game. It would spoil the discovery process of a new player working / earning, his/her way to something they perceive as being better. Whether or not they see it as such, that will depend on what type of game they feel is enjoyable.

Is there not some oxps, or a way that you can give yourself a pile of credits already? Why not just use that.


If someone does decide to go and make a leasing oxp, then I'd suggest it be done to in a way to make it a losing process - as it does in real life. You don't own the vehicle, but are responsible for its maintenance, upkeep, payments, insurance, etc.

Like put yourself in the position of the person leasing the ship out.
With the way ships get blown up all over the galaxy, would you not want to protect your business and make a profit?

You would have to have enough credits for a down payment - figure 10 to 20% of value.
How long is the leasing contract for? 60 months, 120, 240?
What happens if you decide to terminate the contract early? What penalty will be imposed?
Is there going to be an option to actually buy, with said lease?
Default on payments could be handled with extra percentage interest tacked on for the following two months. After 90 days of none payment the ships is repossessed, pure and simple. If the player does not dock at a GalCop station to avoid this, then the ship is declared as stolen property.

A simpler way of doing things, is to just give the player access to a loan from something other than the Black Monks oxp. The Galactic Savings & Loans Bank oxp, for example. The player could borrow up to 10 times whatever they're net worth is (current value of current ship + credit pool), and then just have a simplified monthly payment - including interest - to make which is automatically deducted from the credits pool every 30 days from the time of accepting the loan.
Then you can buy whatever ship you want.

[Commander McLane]

It's not that hard to make credits in the game, and once you have about 800,000, there's no ship you can't afford and completely outfit.

I assume that people who would use this will be wanting to buy OXP ships at the price of several millions.

A simpler way of doing things, is to just give the player access to a loan from something other than the Black Monks oxp. The Galactic Savings & Loans Bank oxp, for example. The player could borrow up to 10 times whatever they're net worth is (current value of current ship + credit pool), and then just have a simplified monthly payment - including interest - to make which is automatically deducted from the credits pool every 30 days from the time of accepting the loan.
Then you can buy whatever ship you want.

Actually, what I'm thinking about is a loan rather than leasing.

[Greyth]

It sounds like an excellent concept

[Switeck]

The Black Monks oxp could use a redesign to become a savings and loan bank.

"Savings" would amount to something like 0.01% (or 0.03% if in good standing/long-term/rich) interest per day, with penalties for withdrawing it in less than 30 days and also ATM fees for withdrawing it from other systems and in other Galaxy Charts.
Become a fugitive, and your account gets frozen...or worse, if you're extremely fugitive confiscated and lost!

The loan side starts off with a "starter" loan of only ~1000-2000 credits and has to be paid off in 10 days...and it accumulates 10% interest daily. (100 or 200 credits/day)
The second loan (after you've had the first) is 20000 credits and you have 30 days to pay it off, with 1% interest daily. (200 credits/day)
The 3rd loan is 100000 credits (still shy of a good ship) and you have 100 days to pay it off, with 1% interest daily. (1000 credits/day)

[Smivs]

The Black Monks oxp could use a redesign to become a savings and loan bank.

Or a Fish and chip shop...

"Are you the Fish Friar?"
"No, I'm the Chip Monk."

[CommonSenseOTB]

I don't get it...


What so fun about accounting and taxes and making payments?


Would much rather see a shipset which has subents for different pieces of equipment that are removed when the respective equipment is damaged or not installed.

Now that would be fun.

I wonder if someone is working on that?

[Diziet Sma]

I had an idea! <Waits for everyone to stop laughing >
We have all got used to the way we buy ships in Oolite, and many of us have played for ages to save up for the ship of our dreams. Many others have probably just blatantly cheated to increase their funds.
But why do we have to pay the full amount up-front? Yes, I know that's the way the game is set up, but does it have to be that way?
The only in-game alternative that I'm aware of is to take out a loan from the Black Monks, with all the problems that can flow from that, and borrowing enough for a ship purchase is probably not a realistic option. And you still have to pay the full amount up-front.
In the 'real World' when say looking for a new car, there is another option - leasing. You put down a deposit, then you pay a monthly rental fee, usually for a fixed period. You never actually get to own the vehicle, but most packages include servicing, tax etc, and the system basically means that you always have a well-maintained, reasonably new vehicle with predictable monthly costs. There is a lot to be said for this arrangement.
I suspect something similar could be done quite easily by OXP for the core ships (and probably existing OXP ships), and could easily be a designed-in feature for an OXP ship, particularly a potentially expensive one.
As I said, just an idea. What do you good folks think?

Unfortunately, your 'real-world' example isn't analogous in the slightest.

This is an analogous 'real-world' example:

Try borrowing even just a couple of hundred thousand to buy a yacht capable of sailing anywhere in the world. If you don't own a far more valuable house that you can put up as collateral, it ain't gonna happen, period. (Believe me, I've tried, and I only wanted 100,000) Their reasoning? You could easily sail over the horizon and disappear for good, and never make a payment. A respray/rename job on the yacht, and you will never be found, unless you're extremely stupid.

Who in their right mind would loan you a spaceship, or the money for one, when you could then simply vanish on any of more than 2000 worlds scattered throughout the galaxy? Who knows, you might even get a hacker outpost to change the ship ID along the way.

Much as I like your idea, common sense says there isn't a bank or finance company in the Ooniverse that would go for an idea like that. Sorry to be a party-pooper.