Crew discussion 2012

[Ramirez]

I think a scanner with 2 or 3 x the range of the current one might be too much of an advantage, but only if it had all the same features. The main thing I'd have a problem with is being able to identify a ship through the coloured lollipops - I like the idea of not knowing for certain whether a ship is hostile, police, etc until you get within the 30km range of the standard IFF system.

However, you could apply custom lollipop colours to effectively hide this information. So for example, on a first sweep everything could appear in yellow or white (or maybe three different colours for large, medium and small contacts) and it's only when you've done some further target analysis that the colour might change to denote it's a police ship or something like that. Any ships within 30km can be left to the normal scanner.

I'd be v interested to know (if not understand!) how you'd go about doing this.

Here's a pic of the equipment I'm considering so far for the OXP idea (ranges to be confirmed):

[CommonSenseOTB]

Very interesting Ramirez. I was also thinking that the scanner in long range mode wouldn't be able to give any specifics, just an unknown contact, the idea being that to get the range you would be sacrificing details in your scan. Kind of balances it out a little to trade scanner range for details. I have tested 1 of a couple of pieces of code for the long range scanner that when put together will make it work. I will keep working on this when I have time and when I have something that works I'll let you have a go with it to see what you think.

[Rese249er]

I was just over on the AutoSkim thread by Okti, where the skimcomp had given me an idea for an autopilot, which evolved into a nonhostile navigation concept for a helmsman. Combine that with manned turrets and player designation of targets from a tactical screen and the game could be played from a true commander's perspective.

Live out your dreams of being the guy who says it and it gets done. Make It So.


(Perhaps Make It So would be an appropriate title for this proposed OXP?)

EDIT: Perhaps a combination of the functionality of AutoSkim, Formation Escort, and Jump Planner equipment would be the best solution for a helmsman's function.

EDIT2: https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6951 may have some good features as well if it gets off the ground.

EDIT3: See Patron Saint of Jamesons here for another possibility.

[DredgerMan]

I was just over on the AutoSkim thread by Okti, where the skimcomp had given me an idea for an autopilot, which evolved into a nonhostile navigation concept for a helmsman. Combine that with manned turrets and player designation of targets from a tactical screen and the game could be played from a true commander's perspective.

Live out your dreams of being the guy who says it and it gets done. Make It So.


(Perhaps Make It So would be an appropriate title for this proposed OXP?)

EDIT: Perhaps a combination of the functionality of AutoSkim, Formation Escort, and Jump Planner equipment would be the best solution for a helmsman's function.

EDIT2: https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6951 may have some good features as well if it gets off the ground.

EDIT3: See Patron Saint of Jamesons here for another possibility.

Uhhhh, with this OXP what would there be left to do for the Commander, I wonder? Get up from his chair, make a coffee, mow the lawn? I think this one would go a bit too far, personally. But then again, I do not want to be the guy who says it and it gets done. I want to do it myself.

[Rese249er]

EDIT3: See Patron Saint of Jamesons here for another possibility.

Uhhhh, with this OXP what would there be left to do for the Commander, I wonder? Get up from his chair, make a coffee, mow the lawn? I think this one would go a bit too far, personally. But then again, I do not want to be the guy who says it and it gets done. I want to do it myself.

The St. J. did eventually evolve into a form of the dual-own concept; meaning you could have nominal control and profitability from a massive ship (which would also require massive costs, thus limited profit) as well as the immersive experience of escorting a friendly ship and still having the freedom to tool about as usual...

Hmm... With the mod of HiredGuns having tanked, I MAY take a crack at the St. J myself...

[DredgerMan]

EDIT3: See Patron Saint of Jamesons here for another possibility.

The St. J. did eventually evolve into a form of the dual-own concept; meaning you could have nominal control and profitability from a massive ship (which would also require massive costs, thus limited profit) as well as the immersive experience of escorting a friendly ship and still having the freedom to tool about as usual...

Hmm... With the mod of HiredGuns having tanked, I MAY take a crack at the St. J myself...

So like playing two games (ships) at the same time? Hmmm, novel idea!

[Rese249er]

So like playing two games (ships) at the same time? Hmmm, novel idea!

I believe the dual-ownership concept has been kicked around before...

[DredgerMan]

So like playing two games (ships) at the same time? Hmmm, novel idea!

I believe the dual-ownership concept has been kicked around before...

Probably haven't read up that far yet.

[Rese249er]

I've heard tell, that's all. Not an old hand

[Cholmondely]

I've done a basic demo of the advanced targeting system I mentioned, which could act as one of the crew stations. Although It's a little similar to Okti's Long Range Scanner it uses different methods and is intentionally a bit more limited (and therefore a bit more 'gamey').



Buy the equipment (listed as AWACS on the F3 screen) and use Shift+N to activate. I've filtered out small and stationary ships for the moment, and haven't yet sorted all the column alignments or added any timers.

The idea is that you'd use this to locate contacts at long range (although not necessary determine exactly what they are) and then investigate further using various other methods at your disposal. E.g. you might have a tipoff that a Boa is leaving a system with some valuable cargo, in which case you'd be on the lookout for a large, slow vessel with an outbound flight profile. I would add a bit of fiction to say that because of pirates, traders are avoiding the usual space lanes and so won't always be found on the normal planet-WP route.

AWACS test

All of Ramirez's links seem to be broken. Does anybody have a copy of this?

[Cholmondely]

Just to point out:

The only meaningful treatment of crew that I've yet noticed anywhere in Oolite is in Phkb's Hermitage (for crewing his Rock Hermits).

An Anaconda has 40-72 crew according to the wiki page on the Classic Elite ship (the Oolite page says virtually nothing about crew).

• One does not pay their salaries
• One does not hire them or fire them
• They do not die, retire, get hurt...
• One does not have to rescue them for being arrested for being drunk and disorderly on the station
• They have no obvious link with any of the systems - nor problems with them, nor desire to stay on the orbital stations any longer than the ship does
• On the other hand, they are unable to repair damaged equipment
• Nor have they any obvious effect on the timing of Maintenance Overhauls (this last, can of course, be handwaved away by arguing that the timing on a large ship would be even more frequent if not for the presence of crew)

Reference: Crew

[Redspear]

In elite, the player only had the mk III.
In oolite, there was the fairly sensible distinction that a player ship should probably have a hyperdrive.
This ruled our many of the smaller ships and opened up the door for the larger ones.

Pacing can be huge in a game and the larger cargo bays enable rapid profits.
With the contract system being available, I personally think that ships smaller than the mkIII are the better gameplay choice than those larger BUT that likely makes most sense when starting in a smaller ship. The adder is pretty small so it could be argued that I'd be losing more experience than I would gain.

Do you/I/we want to play at crew management? Especially when there are 42+ members to consider?
I'm not suggesting that there is a right answer to such a question but rather that it's an important one.

For me personally, it's a no but I wouldn't mind hiring generic crew replacements (like topping up fuel it's a simple top up, rather than vetting individual candidates) after an eject or a particularly damaging combat.

I further wouldn't mind favouring a particular crew type with inherant bonuses/costs associated with them.
So however many my crew, it could simply be represented as, for example, 40% engineering, 30% navigation, 30% logistics and that ratio might change each time I buy replacements.

Engineering might facilitate occasional repairs or boost injector efficiency/speed.
Navigation might improve travel times or reduce fuel consumption.
Logistics might faciliate loading and installation times.

And this whole thing might be an oxp project that I've been consideing for months now

[Cholmondely]

Do you/I/we want to play at crew management? Especially when there are 42+ members to consider?
I'm not suggesting that there is a right answer to such a question but rather that it's an important one.

For me personally, it's a no but ...

Quite agree - but only because I've no interest in flying a boa or an anaconda.

According to Nautic Jobs, the average crew for a container ship is around 20.



This rather raises the question of what the 70-odd crew in an anaconda are actually all up to. Personally, I think that they are all in the engine room pedalling away like billy-oh.

And the dozen or so in an FdL? Well there is a pilot and an engineer, and a butler, a chambermaid, a chef and seven polishers to keep the ship sparkling and clean.

Not too sure what the 1-10 police in a viper are all doing when there are ten of them in there...

[Redspear]

Quite agree - but only because I've no interest in flying a boa or an anaconda.

They're the upgrades from the mk iii that aren't really upgrades at all... unlike the boa mk ii, which is far too good IMHO.

If you start in a cobra mark i then there's a nice mix of nostalgia (it's still a cobra), growth potential (10TC isn't terrible to get you started) and combat capability (2EB is a lot better than 1 and a missile, hyperdrive and rear laser position gives a little taste of everything).

Trouble is/was that all the downgrades were too slow not to worsen the experience. There are since various oxp solutions to that problem however.

[Astrobe]

According to Nautic Jobs, the average crew for a container ship is around 20.

So a crew is something you have to have for big ships; not in order to increase its efficiency, but to function correctly. A single pilot cannot drive the ship 24/7 so you need at least a couple of copilots in addition to the commander. You need a couple of mechanics to maintain the engines, and perhaps another couple of people for general ship maintenance. All these people are busy when they are not sleeping, so now you need a cook, someone to cleanup the rooms, change the sheets and someone to do the laundry. They also fall ill or hurt themselves, so you need at least a medic. When your crew becomes big, it has to be split into teams, so now you need managers.

If you're going to add a crew to big ships, it's probably best to manage it not at stations (hiring etc.) but in-flight, as player boredom during masslocks and other downtimes is a recurring issue, in particular for big slow ships. Managing their schedule so that there's always someone to do the job when something happens, including crew members randomly becoming sick (with higher chances if they don't sleep or don't eat enough or the ship is too hot) could be interesting. Crew's happiness (boosted with credits or beer) could also be part of the equation. I would go for a slight bonus (in terms of ship maintenance costs for instance, but in-flight ship properties like e.g. energy regen could be considered) if the player does well, and a slight malus if they don't.