[RELEASE] Icesteroids V2

[CommonSenseOTB]

Back to topic again.

The next question is: if there is nothing to gain from mining iceteroids, should miners shoot them up in the first place? Perhaps they'd do it for fun, or to clear the area?

The question is more or less rhetorical, because I don't see an easy way to prevent miners from shooting iceteroids. According to the Wiki scanForRocks scans first for ships havin role "boulder" and, if it finds none, for ships having role "asteroid". Therefore the ice boulders are ignored, because they don't have "boulder" among their roles. The iceteroids, however, are spawned through their "asteroid" role, therefore they have that role by definition. And while it is possible to add other roles after spawning, I don't think it's possible to remove a role after spawning. Thus, as long as they're spawned as normal asteroids (which in itself makes sense), I don't think miners can easily be prevented from blowing them up.

Perhaps this is an oxp feature? Every OXP author is responsible for getting their shipdata.plist right. It's all well-documented, and it's not exactly rocket science.

[Staer9]

Perhaps this is an oxp feature? Every OXP author is responsible for getting their shipdata.plist right. It's all well-documented, and it's not exactly rocket science.

I agree

[Commander McLane]

The next question is: if there is nothing to gain from mining iceteroids, should miners shoot them up in the first place? Perhaps they'd do it for fun, or to clear the area?

The question is more or less rhetorical, because I don't see an easy way to prevent miners from shooting iceteroids. According to the Wiki scanForRocks scans first for ships havin role "boulder" and, if it finds none, for ships having role "asteroid". Therefore the ice boulders are ignored, because they don't have "boulder" among their roles. The iceteroids, however, are spawned through their "asteroid" role, therefore they have that role by definition. And while it is possible to add other roles after spawning, I don't think it's possible to remove a role after spawning. Thus, as long as they're spawned as normal asteroids (which in itself makes sense), I don't think miners can easily be prevented from blowing them up.

Perhaps this is an oxp feature?

I'm sure it is. (Which detail of my musings are you referring to? The fact that Oolite (to my knowledge) doesn't allow the removing of roles after spawning has nothing to do with any OXP, though.)

[CommonSenseOTB]

The next question is: if there is nothing to gain from mining iceteroids, should miners shoot them up in the first place? Perhaps they'd do it for fun, or to clear the area?

This is a feature. The miners are clearing navigational hazards from the spacelanes or just having fun. Inexplicable or bizarre and even slightly less than logical behaviour by npcs adds to the immersion factor.

Beware those belters son, steer clear of 'em when you see 'em. Spends most o' their time alone and some of 'em tend to go all funny in the head. No tellin' what they might do. Heh! You heed my words now son, ya hear?

[Commander McLane]

The next question is: if there is nothing to gain from mining iceteroids, should miners shoot them up in the first place? Perhaps they'd do it for fun, or to clear the area?

This is a feature. The miners are clearing navigational hazards from the spacelanes or just having fun.

Yes, that's what I suggested in the first place with the second question, isn't it?

There is one detail that could seem odd, though. If the miners shoot iceteroids in order to clear navigational hazards, why do they completely ignore the resulting ice boulders? Aren't those navigational hazards as well, given their much bigger number compared to the original iceteroids?

I haven't installed the OXP, therefore I have no experience at all with it. I just imagine that I'd perhaps find this behaviour odd, if I'd observe it. And all I'm doing is musing about the current behaviour of the OXP as far as I understand it, which is that miners do target iceteroids, but then ignore their ice boulders.

[cim]

give them the role together with a role weight of 0. Then they never get chosen as ordinary boulders. You should add "boulder(0)" to their roles.

I tried that and now when an ice boulder is shot with a mining laser, it spawns a few more in its place. Although that was reported earlier in the thread, it is definitely doing it now. I am currently watching some mining vessels trying to mine an ever-increasing cloud of blue rocks. Link.[/quote]
You could add a ship script to the ice boulders containing

Code: Select all

this.shipTakingDamage(amount,whom,type) {
  if (this.ship.energy <= 0) {
    this.ship.remove(true);
  }
}

Then if the boulders' energy reaches zero, it should be removed from the universe without spawning new boulders.

[Norby]

I added this nicesteroids into the OXZ manager.

[Wildeblood]

I added this nicesteroids into the OXZ manager.

Good. It's about time someone did.

[Cholmondely]

3 Comments

1) Transparency/translucency

Too bright - the effect is more phosphorescent than translucent. It doesn't matter so much if they're in the sunlight, but on the dark side of the planet, where there is no sun at all, it is particularly obvious. I thought "kryptonite" more than "ice". Also, being bright, the edges of polygons are obvious which makes them look unrealistic...

Thanks for your comments, the trouble is that oolite doesn't support transparency (something which has had some debate before so there is no point going into detail now) because of this I had to emulate it as best as I could, which is why the normals are flipped, it is an effect not immediately noticeable by if you do notice you'll find yourself slowly getting closer and closer to the monitor. I also attempted to emulate a fractioning effect by using a glow-map... the problem with this you have pointed out, when they are on the dark side of the planet it seems unreal...

Will this still be an issue with all the work that a_c has recently done on graphics?

2) SW Economy
This oxp introduces water as a commodity. Could scooped icesteroids count - or would they need melting and distilling? And how would one include this in the game? Some sort of code in SW Economics, maybe?

3) Shiplibrary.plist
There isn't one...

4) Griff's Version
For reference: Griff's (original?) version is here

Edit: Oops! Wrong link

[montana05]

2) SW Economy
This oxp introduces water as a commodity. Could scooped icesteroids count - or would they need melting and distilling? And how would one include this in the game? Some sort of code in SW Economics, maybe?

If you want to keep it simple, just include a simple script to this OXP:

Check the market if water is a commodity
If yes, spawn some additional splinters containing water to scoop after a boulder is destroyed. Splinters are quite similar, with containers so easy to handle.

[Cholmondely]

2) SW Economy
This oxp introduces water as a commodity. Could scooped icesteroids count - or would they need melting and distilling? And how would one include this in the game? Some sort of code in SW Economics, maybe?

If you want to keep it simple, just include a simple script to this OXP:

Check the market if water is a commodity
If yes, spawn some additional splinters containing water to scoop after a boulder is destroyed. Splinters are quite similar, with containers so easy to handle.

I think that both this one - and Griff's original - produce ice-boulders, ice-splinters and occasional chunks of alloy.

[montana05]

2) SW Economy
This oxp introduces water as a commodity. Could scooped icesteroids count - or would they need melting and distilling? And how would one include this in the game? Some sort of code in SW Economics, maybe?

If you want to keep it simple, just include a simple script to this OXP:

Check the market if water is a commodity
If yes, spawn some additional splinters containing water to scoop after a boulder is destroyed. Splinters are quite similar, with containers so easy to handle.

I think that both this one - and Griff's original - produce ice-boulders, ice-splinters and occasional chunks of alloy.

I didn't have a look at both OXP's, so now I am just guessing. I do believe that the splinters will provide minerals, nothing else. To spawn water, you will need to add more splinters containing it. I am still waiting for advice from phkb if this is a wanted feature or just another bug in the core game.

[Cholmondely]

I think that both this one - and Griff's original - produce ice-boulders, ice-splinters and occasional chunks of alloy.

I didn't have a look at both OXP's, so now I am just guessing. I do believe that the splinters will provide minerals, nothing else. To spawn water, you will need to add more splinters containing it. I am still waiting for advice from phkb if this is a wanted feature or just another bug in the core game.

I was wrong. Double-checked with Telescope and a Mining Laser.

Staer9's icesteroids produce ice boulders which either split up into smaller ice boulders or into metal fragments (alloys).
Griffs Ice Asteroids split immediately into metal fragments.

One wonders if these effects should be changed. But then we would need boulders for Griff and splinters for both.

And one presumes that all that ice is just supposed to vaporise under the effects of the laser, even a tightly focused mining laser.

[montana05]

I think that both this one - and Griff's original - produce ice-boulders, ice-splinters and occasional chunks of alloy.

I didn't have a look at both OXP's, so now I am just guessing. I do believe that the splinters will provide minerals, nothing else. To spawn water, you will need to add more splinters containing it. I am still waiting for advice from phkb if this is a wanted feature or just another bug in the core game.

I was wrong. Double-checked with Telescope and a Mining Laser.

Staer9's icesteroids produce ice boulders which either split up into smaller ice boulders or into metal fragments (alloys).
Griffs Ice Asteroids split immediately into metal fragments.

One wonders if these effects should be changed. But then we would need boulders for Griff and splinters for both.

And one presumes that all that ice is just supposed to vaporise under the effects of the laser, even a tightly focused mining laser.

Both could be changed, Staer9's could have added splinters and therefore to water if available. Griff I need to have a look at the OXP first,
if I could use the shaders for splinters, there shouldn't be a problem. However, I only know the basics of shaders and therefore Griff's usually I fail to modify. I also believe that splinters have a default of minerals, so a workaround will be needed to actually get water.

[Cholmondely]

I didn't have a look at both OXP's, so now I am just guessing. I do believe that the splinters will provide minerals, nothing else. To spawn water, you will need to add more splinters containing it. I am still waiting for advice from phkb if this is a wanted feature or just another bug in the core game.

I was wrong. Double-checked with Telescope and a Mining Laser.

Staer9's icesteroids produce ice boulders which either split up into smaller ice boulders or into metal fragments (alloys).
Griffs Ice Asteroids split immediately into metal fragments.

One wonders if these effects should be changed. But then we would need boulders for Griff and splinters for both.

And one presumes that all that ice is just supposed to vaporise under the effects of the laser, even a tightly focused mining laser.

Both could be changed, Staer9's could have added splinters and therefore to water if available. Griff I need to have a look at the OXP first,
if I could use the shaders for splinters, there shouldn't be a problem. However, I only know the basics of shaders and therefore Griff's usually I fail to modify. I also believe that splinters have a default of minerals, so a workaround will be needed to actually get water.

Griff labelled it as an experiment... I wonder if he would be up to updating it for Specular/Gloss/Colourblind etc. - and then adding boulders and splinters?