Advise me on buying a laptop for Oolite?!

[JazHaz]

re that Sony notebook - You did not tell what model it is, I assume a Vaio F21* or a Vaio F23* ?

I believe it was an F21.

They feature a GT540 (or maybe newer models a GT630?), wich is a "casual gamer" or "middle-class" graphics card.
If you run the notebook at it's native display resolution (FullHD), then a GT540 can - with modern and graphics intensive games, not so much with Oolite - reach its limitations.

For the aimed at 3D-gaming, particularly in combo with FullHD resolution, a GT540 is definitely too weak. Once again, this refers to modern and graphics-intensive games.

Thats good information.

Today, I was looking at a Heide PC (no, I've never heard of it either) on Amazon, which uses a Nvidia Geforce GTX 460M 1536 MB.

[JazHaz]

Finally ordered a new laptop! Woohoo!

Gone for this one, I don't think its 64bit, but it has everything I want, and less money too.

MSI GE620DX-691UK 15.6 inch LED Gaming Laptop (Intel i7 2670QM, 750GB HDD, 8GB RAM, DDR3, GeForce 2Gb DDR3 GTX 635M Graphics Card, Windows 7 Home Premium)

[Gimi]

Finally ordered a new laptop! Woohoo!

Gone for this one, I don't think its 64bit, but it has everything I want, and less money too.

MSI GE620DX-691UK 15.6 inch LED Gaming Laptop (Intel i7 2670QM, 750GB HDD, 8GB RAM, DDR3, GeForce 2Gb DDR3 GTX 635M Graphics Card, Windows 7 Home Premium)

All Intel Core processors from the Core 2 onwards, including the Core i7, are 64bit, so your new toy/tool is certainly capable of running a 64bit OS. Also, since it is being sold with 8GB of RAM, I would be very surprised if this system is shipped with the 32bit version of Win7.

[JazHaz]

Finally ordered a new laptop! Woohoo!

Gone for this one, I don't think its 64bit, but it has everything I want, and less money too.

MSI GE620DX-691UK 15.6 inch LED Gaming Laptop (Intel i7 2670QM, 750GB HDD, 8GB RAM, DDR3, GeForce 2Gb DDR3 GTX 635M Graphics Card, Windows 7 Home Premium)

All Intel Core processors from the Core 2 onwards, including the Core i7, are 64bit, so your new toy/tool is certainly capable of running a 64bit OS. Also, since it is being sold with 8GB of RAM, I would be very surprised if this system is shipped with the 32bit version of Win7.

Yes you are right. I bought it through Amazon and it didn't quote that. However checking the official MSI website page for the model it confirms it is 64bit.

[Cody]

Seems like a bargain, JH. Only thing is, the GPU may not be the GTX 635M that's stated.

[JazHaz]

Seems like a bargain, JH. Only thing is, the GPU may not be the GTX 635M that's stated.

Really? What does that mean?

I don't know the GTs from the GTXs anyway. I chose it because its a 2Gb GPU, which might help with the large texture problems with several OXPs recently.

[Cody]

Inexpert advice, but I don't believe the GTX635M exists. It'll be the GT635M, I expect, but the MSI specs do state the GT555M (lower down). The GT is not as good as the GTX, that much I know, but it should do all you need. Check the specs carefully when you take delivery though. I repeat, I'm no expert when it comes to laptops.

[snork]

So, congratulations, enjoy!

Did you have bluray / fullHD-TV before ? If you need blurays, you should first look up what your public library has to offer.

------------------------------------------
about that GT 635 : it exists (but not GTX), it is is a rebranded GT555.

Lately nvidia started rebranding their 5** graphics to 6**, (e.g. GT630 = GT540, GTX 670 = GTX 570, GTX 675 = GTX 580, )
But also "newest" graphics (Kepler generation) get named 6**-style (GT640, GT650, GT660).

A very confusing and imo. despicable behaviour from nvidia's side. Also to me it seems being counterproductive, makes it look as if anything was wrong with the GT5** series, which is not the case.

Moreover there have always been two different graphics with the name GT555, now GT635, differing in number of shaders, core speeds, bus-width and version of RAM.
Each of those versions can then come with different amount of RAM. A mess.

The MSI features the more-shaders,-128bit,-GDDR3-version.
MSI set core and shader clock speeds higher than the nvidia defaults.
This is from a MSI GE620DX :
http://www.notebookcheck.pl/typo3temp/p ... 1c4cfd.png

This kind of a GT555 gains little from more than 1 GB of graphics RAM - no matter if 1 or 2 or 3 GB of RAM, they all will do fine and should not have any such problem with oxps with big textures or whatever that exactly was/ is.

--------------------------

[JazHaz]

The laptop was delivered today (a day earlier than expected ), still getting to know its features. Can confirm that the GPU is a GT 635M.

Only had time for a little trip on Oolite, but wow, full shaders makes everything look fab. And dogfighting is so much easier when you don't get juddering when aiming (unlike on my previous PCs).

Here's a couple of extracts from my log:

Code: Select all

13:55:31.176 [log.header]: Opening log for Oolite version 1.76 (x86-32 test release) under Windows at 2012-05-08 13:55:31 +0100.
8 processors detected.
Build options: spoken messages, mass/fuel pricing, JavaScript console support, OXP verifier, localization tools, debug GraphViz support, JavaScript profiling.

Note that the contents of the log file can be adjusted by editing logcontrol.plist.

13:55:32.720 [display.mode.list.native]: Windows native resolution detected: 1920 x 1080

Code: Select all

13:55:45.205 [rendering.opengl.version]: OpenGL renderer version: 4.2.0 ("4.2.0"). Vendor: "NVIDIA Corporation". Renderer: "GeForce GT 635M/PCI/SSE2".
13:55:45.205 [rendering.opengl.extensions]: OpenGL extensions (265):
GL_ARB_draw_instanced, GL_NV_texture_lod_clamp, GL_NV_float_buffer, GL_NV_vertex_attrib_integer_64bit, GL_ARB_occlusion_query, GL_EXT_texture_env_add, GL_ARB_texture_storage, GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3, GL_ARB_sync, GL_EXTX_framebuffer_mixed_formats, GL_ARB_texture_multisample, GL_NV_texture_env_combine4, GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_OES_depth24, GL_ARB_vertex_array_object, GL_NVX_gpu_memory_info, GL_NV_vertex_buffer_unified_memory, GL_ARB_blend_func_extended, GL_NV_explicit_multisample, GL_EXT_provoking_vertex, GL_NV_texture_shader2, GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate, GL_ARB_compressed_texture_pixel_storage, GL_NV_texture_shader3, GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two, GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays, GL_NV_fence, GL_ARB_timer_query, GL_ARB_texture_buffer_object, GL_OES_packed_depth_stencil, GL_NV_occlusion_query, GL_EXT_abgr, GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_NV_shader_buffer_load, GL_ATI_texture_float, GL_ARB_draw_buffers_blend, GL_ARB_viewport_array, GL_KTX_buffer_region, GL_ARB_shadow, GL_NV_light_max_exponent, GL_EXT_texture_cube_map, GL_EXT_texture_compression_dxt1, GL_ARB_shader_atomic_counters, GL_NV_texture_multisample, GL_NV_primitive_restart, GL_EXT_framebuffer_object, GL_EXT_texture_sRGB, GL_ARB_conservative_depth, GL_ARB_get_program_binary, GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_NV_half_float, GL_NV_copy_image, GL_NV_path_rendering, GL_OES_depth32, GL_NV_register_combiners, GL_EXT_texture_compression_rgtc, GL_ARB_shader_objects, GL_EXT_blend_func_separate, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object, GL_ARB_vertex_attrib_64bit, GL_NV_fragment_program2, GL_EXT_Cg_shader, GL_ARB_draw_buffers, GL_EXT_separate_shader_objects, GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar, GL_ARB_fragment_shader, GL_EXT_texture_swizzle, GL_EXT_fog_coord, GL_EXT_vertex_array_bgra, GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit, GL_NV_copy_depth_to_color, GL_ARB_texture_compression_rgtc, GL_ARB_sample_shading, GL_NV_vertex_program1_1, GL_ARB_seamless_cube_map, GL_WIN_swap_hint, GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent, GL_ARB_shading_language_420pack, GL_ARB_shader_subroutine, GL_EXT_texture_format_BGRA8888, GL_EXT_geometry_shader4, GL_EXT_direct_state_access, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object2, GL_ARB_shader_image_load_store, GL_NV_vertex_array_range2, GL_ARB_shading_language_include, GL_EXT_texture_storage, GL_EXT_shader_image_load_store, GL_EXT_separate_specular_color, GL_ARB_vertex_type_2_10_10_10_rev, GL_EXT_vertex_array, GL_ARB_shading_language_100, GL_OES_texture_float, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, GL_ARB_texture_float, GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil, GL_EXT_bindable_uniform, GL_ARB_texture_swizzle, GL_ARB_half_float_pixel, GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc, GL_EXT_draw_instanced, GL_ARB_occlusion_query2, GL_NV_transform_feedback, GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc, GL_ARB_texture_rgb10_a2ui, GL_SGIS_texture_lod, WGL_EXT_swap_control, GL_ARB_geometry_shader4, GL_NV_point_sprite, GL_ARB_framebuffer_object, GL_NV_conditional_render, GL_EXT_stencil_two_side, GL_ARB_texture_rg, GL_OES_get_program_binary, GL_NV_texture_expand_normal, GL_EXT_texture_type_2_10_10_10_REV, GL_ARB_color_buffer_float, GL_NV_gpu_program4_1, GL_NV_framebuffer_multisample_coverage, GL_EXT_blend_color, GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil, GL_NV_geometry_shader4, GL_NV_texture_rectangle, GL_ARB_vertex_array_bgra, GL_EXT_texture_integer, GL_EXT_texture_array, GL_ARB_base_instance, GL_EXT_import_sync_object, GL_ARB_shading_language_packing, GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow, GL_NV_gpu_program4, GL_NV_fragdepth, GL_EXT_texture_buffer_object, GL_OES_standard_derivatives, GL_NV_vertex_program2_option, GL_NV_gpu_program5, GL_ARB_map_buffer_range, GL_ARB_fragment_program, GL_ARB_copy_buffer, GL_NV_blend_minmax, GL_ARB_tessellation_shader, GL_NV_gpu_shader5, GL_S3_s3tc, GL_NV_depth_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias, GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic, GL_EXT_draw_buffers2, GL_OES_texture_3D, GL_NV_fragment_program, GL_EXT_secondary_color, GL_ARB_transform_feedback2, GL_ARB_transform_feedback3, GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample, GL_ARB_window_pos, GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip, GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_ARB_vertex_shader, GL_ARB_texture_compression_bptc, GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap, GL_ARB_compatibility, GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once, GL_EXT_packed_float, GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp, GL_ARB_explicit_attrib_location, GL_NV_blend_square, GL_ARB_internalformat_query, GL_EXT_texture3D, GL_SUN_slice_accum, GL_NV_vertex_array_range, GL_ARB_ES2_compatibility, GL_NV_vertex_program, GL_ARB_texture_query_lod, GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint, GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp, GL_EXT_texture_sRGB_decode, GL_ARB_texture_compression, GL_NV_vertex_program2, GL_NV_multisample_coverage, GL_ARB_texture_env_add, GL_ARB_imaging, GL_NV_vertex_program3, GL_ARB_provoking_vertex, GL_EXT_gpu_shader4, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle, GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp, GL_NV_transform_feedback2, GL_OES_texture_half_float_linear, GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex, GL_ARB_fragment_coord_conventions, GL_OES_texture_half_float, GL_ARB_separate_shader_objects, GL_SGIX_shadow, GL_ARB_texture_cube_map, GL_EXT_transform_feedback2, GL_NV_alpha_test, GL_OES_vertex_array_object, GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB, GL_NV_fragment_program_option, GL_EXT_texture_compression_latc, GL_ARB_robustness, GL_ARB_point_sprite, GL_ARB_texture_gather, GL_ARB_texture_buffer_object_rgb32, GL_OES_depth_texture, GL_NV_depth_buffer_float, GL_ARB_depth_texture, GL_EXT_texture_object, GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test, GL_NV_fog_distance, GL_ARB_instanced_arrays, GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_SGIX_depth_texture, GL_ATI_draw_buffers, GL_ARB_framebuffer_sRGB, GL_NV_fbo_color_attachments, GL_EXT_blend_subtract, GL_NV_register_combiners2, GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_NV_texture_shader, GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_ARB_texture_cube_map_array, GL_ARB_sampler_objects, GL_ARB_half_float_vertex, GL_OES_mapbuffer, GL_ARB_shader_precision, GL_ARB_gpu_shader5, GL_OES_rgb8_rgba8, GL_ARB_depth_clamp, GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object, GL_ARB_draw_indirect, GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object, GL_EXT_vertex_attrib_64bit, GL_ARB_transform_feedback_instanced, GL_OES_texture_npot, GL_NVX_conditional_render, GL_ARB_texture_env_combine, GL_OES_vertex_half_float, GL_ARB_shader_bit_encoding, GL_EXT_timer_query, GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters, GL_ARB_uniform_buffer_object, GL_ARB_multisample, GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3, GL_OES_texture_float_linear, GL_NV_shader_atomic_counters, GL_EXT_shadow_funcs, GL_EXT_texture_lod, GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float, GL_NV_pixel_data_range, GL_ARB_map_buffer_alignment, GL_ARB_gpu_shader_fp64, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_OES_fbo_render_mipmap, GL_EXT_point_parameters, GL_OES_element_index_uint, GL_NV_texture_barrier, GL_NV_gpu_program_fp64, GL_NV_complex_primitives
13:55:45.282 [rendering.opengl.shader.support]: Shaders are supported

[Cody]

Very cool, JH... you must be well pleased with that. Uncertain again, but for drivers you'll need to look under the GT555M section (I think).
Also, be aware that the latest 296.10 version caused a few problems on my machine (Win XP), so I had to roll-back to the previous version.

[JazHaz]

Also, be aware that the latest 296.10 version caused a few problems on my machine (Win XP), so I had to roll-back to the previous version.

I have 296.10 installed but all seems ok so far.

This laptop has two GPUs installed, the Nvidia GT 635M, and Intel(R) HD Graphics 3000. First run of Oolite was under the latter, and although it supports full shaders, there was lots of graphical glitches. Second run I worked out how to turn on the Nvidia for the game.

At the moment I'm not sure if there is a way to select Nvidia for every run of Oolite.

[Cody]

In the nVidia control panel you can set-up an Oolite profile (at least on a desktop PC), but I don't know about specifying the GPU.
I'd want the nVidia GPU in use all the time anyway as default.
Oh, the problems I had were not while playing Oolite... just browsing.

[Capt. Murphy]

Also, be aware that the latest 296.10 version caused a few problems on my machine (Win XP), so I had to roll-back to the previous version.

I have 296.10 installed but all seems ok so far.

This laptop has two GPUs installed, the Nvidia GT 635M, and Intel(R) HD Graphics 3000. First run of Oolite was under the latter, and although it supports full shaders, there was lots of graphical glitches. Second run I worked out how to turn on the Nvidia for the game.

At the moment I'm not sure if there is a way to select Nvidia for every run of Oolite.

The HD3000 will not get on with 1.76 (graphical glitches and prone to crashes). It does get on absolutely fine with trunk or a 1.76.1 maintenance build as long as you have the most current drivers from Intel (not necessarily what the manufacturer has as the most current driver - check driver revision numbers carefully - the good one is 8.15.10.2656).

Edit to add - having checked the Intel website they have released 8.15.10.2696 - I haven't tried that yet but will give it a spin in the morning.

With regards to the dual GPUs on these machines check the manufacturers website for a BIOS update / guidance. Apparently many manufacturers struggled initially with the concept that users may want to permanently specify a specific GPU for a task/program and didn't include the functionality, or did so in a cack-handed fashion, but most have mended their ways.

Don't be to worried about messing around with trying different drivers for either of your cards. Win 7 makes the process of switching between drivers, rolling back to previous drivers etc. very very easy compared to XP.

[Cody]

Win 7 makes the process of switching between drivers, rolling back to previous drivers etc. very very easy compared to XP.

I'm trying to save-up the pounds to buy Win7, but the damn utility bills keep taking my cash!

[Capt. Murphy]

I love Win 7 and don't find it controls what I want to with my computer at all. My one and only complaint (and quite a serious one) is that it's home networking / shared folders functionality (when the network involves non-Win 7 machines) is inherently insecure at default settings and this has never been patched by Microsoft. It can be fixed by the user though, just takes a bit of googling to work out how.